A couple that I have had for a very long time and enjoy to this day are Discovery Essential and Nirvana SL/SX-LTD. Both are most natural sounding. Are there better, certainly. But these are “it” in my systems. I also have Iconoclast scattered about here and there, nice.
Actually, you compared the systems reactance linearity. You can’t listen to just a cable. You listen to the amplifier’s linearity driving a cable+speaker. The lower a cable’s total reactance and a speakers impedance reactance the better the amplifier’s linearity. Amplifier’s hate L and C reactance and are tested resistive to get the best performance values. Cable and speakers are anything but resistive.
We do have some speakers (planer magnetic) that are closer to resistive and easier on amplifers. The equivalent resistive load (the resistive vector of a complex load) a speaker presents to an amplifier can be as low a 1 ohm in some cases in the treble (not too much current there so we get away with it) and 2 ohms in the bass where we have high current demands from the amplifier.
This is why, as an example, I limited ICONOCLAST designs to use low L and C so the amplifer is driving the speaker more than the cable as much as practicable while correcting other issues. Wire efficiency is automatically corrected by using peroper AWG wire so fancy wire goemetries are irreleavant to the cabl’s design requirements and even makes them worse, not better. If want to address a single parameter, sure, go ahead and do it.
To make your expirement more meaningful, group cable’s reactance. One’s with relatively high reactance (usually C is speced) compared to one’s with low C will exhibit how well your amplifer deals with reactance. Not all amplifiers are same and several, several, reviews suggest to not use certain designs with certain speakers and this is all why. Addressing ALL off an anlog cable’s issues all the while limiting L and C to low reactive values isn’t easy. Few know why this has to be done or if it is done at all.
If you change speakers or the amplifie you’ll need to start all over. What you’ll find, is cable with generally low reactance tends to stay most consistent into the same speakers after you swap amplifiers. Ones with higher reactances will audibly change what you hear the most as the ampifer’s linearity is changed the most. A resistor in series to the speaker can’t change a thing and is limited to just the speaker’s reactance.
You are correct to revise your comments to what you hear (ten or so cable’s is hardly everything out there). The basis on the science is much harder to properly address as most manufacturer’s don’t want you to go there, and for good reasons. My wish, long term, is to define a definitive set of cable tests that need to be published so you can go there. As is, it is all sales and marketing.
Best,
Galen
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Actually with some systems what you hear is limited by a cable or cables.
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This is called circular reasoning, though. Easy to get trapped in. If I change ANYTHING and hear a change don’t like I can blame the change on the thing “limiting” the system. And, we tend to feel what we like getting worse is the “limit”.
A speaker is far more influential on the amplifier than the cable. Sure, the cable helps but it is not really “limiting” the system so much as we psychologically decide a change we don’t like was a “limit” over a change we do like. And yes, cable changes can and will indeed nudge what we do like. Not saying it doesn’t but it is relative to our enjoyment. Your system can go either way with a cable test but neither is really a limit of the system. It does suggest what we enjoy!
As an easy example. Ever hear a truly flat system? Did you like it?
Best,
Galen
A friend of mine was using a certain brand of speaker cables. He was very pleased with them. But I thought the cables he was using were not allowing the music through properly and were limiting what he was hearing. I borrowed him a pair of mine and that showed him the limitations his previous cables had. It’s a simple concept, call it what you will.
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Heh,Heh…
and the beat goes on…
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Since ICONOCLAST is designed based on only the science and physics, with the calculations, measurements and such to back up the design’s improvements I’d like to feel what you hear with them is more “correct”. It probably is more correct but, we humans are not always the best test instrument.
This is why the idea of a limit is what gets in the way of what we like, and not correctness. Just be aware of our bias. I designed ICONOCLAST on a basis that mostly removes my bias, as the hard numbers the designs are tests to are the reference, not what I like. The idea was to offer a choice that isn’t to a “like” but to a simple concept of a best case (my case as the bias) electrical cable for trial. I still had to decide how much here or there, true. So even based on improvements the cable has a bias built-in. Absolutely. I tried to bias all the variables as evenly as analog signal transmission allows because cable isn’t linear at all.
An no, I don’t know what to call that. You got me there.
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You’re spot on, Galen.
When the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel was cleaned, “experts” realized that much of what they were sure they saw before was incorrect.
And what cosmologists, theoretical physicists, mathematicians, experts “knew” while eating their breakfast changes before breakfast has traveled thru their alimentary canal.
I have tried cables from companies, designers who are all well respected experts in their field and they all sound substantially different.
It’s a good time to be alive.
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A quick question. The speaker cables you loaned your friend, what was the cost? Just curious.
Normally I would not mention or take cost into account if the question is simply can one cable assembly be better than another.
To me and perhaps “only” to me cost has to be a part of the equation. But, I am financially restricted even with my obsessive nature to have the best and then take care of it cost is a component.
I know that a Lamborghini Contact JPI 800-4 can move my butt faster and with a lot more style than my pickup. But due to all of the associated costs of owning such a machine and diminishing returns I’ll have to keep my truck.
If the question is that “will some cables” sound better than others in some systems then I will absolutely agree. If the question is whether or not a particular cable will sound better in “all” systems then I will defer that though it may seem that it would be the case, there is always an element of symmetry in audio.
A great cable is a great cable and in most cases, will allow a system to reveal its potential. A poorly designed cable will never do the same. The cable that wins is the cable that does the least amount of damage to the signal. The same can be said for the components, the speakers and the room. I don’t know if I ever heard a cable, component or speaker that simply hands down wins.
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Hi Bob! The two pair of cables I loaned my friend cost me $16K. I totally agree with your thoughts.
I thought those two pairs would be endgame for me but… I got two pairs a few models up and sadly they were better still. Sigh.
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