First does the P12 utilized the same technology as the P15 or P20 except for the additional capacity? Are listeners hearing the “big” improvement because they were exceeding the P12’s capacity. My amps are 2.5W (2A3 SET), typical preamp, DAC, Phono section, tuner and CD player. My P12 draws about 225 W at peak. Would I expect an improvement with a P15 or P2? if so, why?
While going from P5 to P12…technology improvement was significant
yielding a much better soundstage over my former P5…
Going from P12 to P15 same technology with greater power capabilities over
P12…P15 way ahead of P12 sound quality wise…
My P12 was powering my Parasound A21 Class A for 8 watts the AB there
on up to 250 @8ohms… with no struggle at all whatsoever…
P12 also powered my preamp and Oppo 205 …
The power supply in the P15 made a huge difference in the sq quality…
Given lower back challenges had to bypass the P20 the sale price
was so tempting …but the weight factor …
What kind of gear are you looking to power with the regenerator?
David, if the P12 has the “same technology” as the P15, why would it sound “way better” if the P12 was not strained or under powered?
It has something to do with output impedance. It gets much lower as the regenerator gets bigger, much like a bigger power supply sounds better than a smaller one for your components. Maybe @Paul can explain it better, but I can tell you since I have both the P12 and P20 and after hearing the P20, I would never go back to the P12!! The P20 is just unbelievable!! My system is using 325w peak, so it is not overdriving either regenerators.
Perhaps my use of the term “same technology” is not the best description.
The output impedence is less on the P15, P20 than on P12.
Kind of like a larger engine with high flow upper intake lower intake
allowing better fuel air mixture flow; than a smaller engine with the same
intake system…how this helps give a better picture.
Perhaps my analogy here is still flawed, hope that helps some.
Waymanchen explained it better than I could…
Your system’s 225 W peak draw were about my large Parasound A21 would
draw add another 80 W still with this draw my P12 was “idleing” so to speak.
Some strong dynamics would for the blink of an eye so fast hard to see…
maybe 500W or so…still well within the P12’s ability…
The bigger P15 with it’s increase power supply capability along with lower
impedence made a huge difference for my system over P12.
Let’s not overlook the wonderful performance and improvement the P12
brought to my system.
If you would like to be free of concern of the what ifs…get the P15.
You have 30 day trial money back so no money lost…
The PS Audio support team support is 2nd to none…
It’s good to see your post in the forums as I’m running the same but newer Parasound A21+ and finally got my first PS Audio gear being the Stellar GCD.
Also just took advantage of the sale on the PP’s and got a P12, it good to hear that it is powerful enough as I was unsure. Only bad thing is that there are only 4 outlets : (, the P15 was out of my budget…
Just wondering what preamp do you use if you don’t mind me asking?
I couldn’t find many to choose from apart from the matching Parasound P6, Rotel’s RC-1590 and the Stellar.
You’ve explained it well. The output impedance of the regenerators decreases as their size goes up. This is because as the regenerators get bigger, we add more output transistors and power supply capacitors.
Very similar to amps, the extra headroom is very helpful as you go up in size. You always hear people mention the “effortlessness” with the ample headroom in an amp. Very similar idea when it comes to PowerPlants.
Great to hear from you Alex-G…
Which preamp are you currently using?
Glad you took advantage of this PP great sale…for me getting
a PP would be unobtaniums…
Your P12 will really improve your system’s sq significantly…it will
power your A21+ very capably…new levels of performance are
about to come your way. …
While I love my A21 and it is very refined yet powerful even at very
low listening levels you are in for a treat…with your new P12
Preamps…the preamp I am using is an Emotiva XSP1 Gen 2…
it is a very high value performer fully differential…
Take a look here…
It is highly revealing smooth just read through the literature…
Unfortunately have ceased production…it seems to me Emotiva
might well bring it back…there is a big demand for it.
Warranties from Emotiva are transferrable if the original owner
registered the unit when new.
I also have a Wyred4Sound STPSE Stage 2…also fully balanced
and will convert single ended inputs to balanced…
The differences in sq is that the Stage 2 is mellower not
as snappy quick and revealing as the Emo…
you could read here:
My other preamp which is sidelined for now, is a classic 60s
McIntosh all tubed tuner preamp…(rt channel would just fade away
The sq in my recollection could best either of the 2 other preamps
in soundstage presentation. However since I have not used it
in quite a while…it truly is hard to make a comparo…My recollection
is that when I would put it back into play…it would be as if it had been
jealous of being sidelined and “strutt it’s stuff” seeming to tell the other 2
take that you whiffer snaffer you …try that…see if you can do that smarty pants…
It really seemed that way at times…Steve Hoffman put his back into play
against some really big boys…He was amazed as the old MX 110z more
than held it’s own…wow.
The tube path is exciting and thrilling…but…can get very expensive quick…
Curiousity that begs to be satisfied kicks in…and tube rolling starts next
thing you know you have a stash of tubes…$$$$…I know because I’ve been there
and done that…
Because ss gear nowadays has come a very long way…I find that indeed
music can be really enjoyed with ss gear while avoiding the never ending
search for the “best sounding tube”…All the variants within a tube type
have different presentations…
I did a home trial of the Parasound P7…The P7 sound was placing me
the listener at row 1 of the concert venue almost where the conductor
would be standing…I didn’t like that one bit…yet a conductor might really
appreciate that perspective…the other 2 pres about row 14
mid hall…my preference
Also the P7 had an unrealistic touch of over ripeness that no matter how
I played with the bass treble controls could not correct this.
The volume control knob was cheap feel and had play in it’s movement.
Have not experienced the P6 preamp…but it seems to be better built,
and garnering good reports.
Wish I could help you further…
Keep us posted regarding your P12 and preamp selection
I’m currently using the Stellar GainCell DAC/Preamp. I was just curious to see what you were running and what other options are out there. Your comments on the P7 is similar to what I’ve heard from people with the P6. So I bought the GCD instead of the P6 and i’m happy with it.
I’m excited about the P12 it should be arriving some time next week. Also getting a dedicated circuit installed to run all the gear and some room treatment in the form of some absorption panels as my room has a fair bit of reverb/flutter echo. Oh and I have a hi-fi rack that’s waiting to be put together, cant wait till everything is installed and setup!
You have a very nice system coming together with a dedicated
circuit to boot!!!
I can just imagine the following…"gee I never heard that…where
did that come from…the music that was hidden now becomes apparent!!
It will be hard for anyone to pry you out of your music cave…
By the way which speakers are you using?
Alex-G…now you’ve got to keep us posted with your new
experiences… Would like to hear about your progress…
Yeah it blew me away when I first hooked up the A21+ & GCD previously I was using a Rotel A14/CD14 80W Int amp and CD player.
Speakers: B&W 703 S2
Amp: Parasound A21+
Preamp/DAC: PSA Stellar GCD
Source: Denon DCD-2500ne CD player and Innuos Zen Mini Mk3 streamer
Power Cables: Isotek Premier & Voodoo Vision
Analogue Cables: AQ Mackenzie
Ethernet: AQ Cinnamon
Accoustic Panels: Some affordable Primacoustic Broadway
Hifi Rack: Extrema AR23 with isolation upgrade on each shelf
You have put together a very nice system
quality gear …
Ye ain’t heard nuttn’ yet
“Just you wait 'enry Higgins…just you wait”…
'cause a P12 ‘s a comin’…to your house…
My 2 channel system
Amp: Parasound A21
Preamp: Emotiva XSP1 Gen2
Power: P15 regenerator
Power cables: Pangea AC 9SE Mkii x2 Pangea AC 14SE MkII x 2
XLR IC: Nordost Red Dawn Oppo to EMO XSP1 Gen2 and from EMO to
Speaker cables: Nordost Red Dawn
Speakers Focal Aria 948s
I’m trying to decide between the P12 and P15. My gear:
Innous Zenith MKII
PS Audio Stellar Phono Pre
PS Audio BHK Pre Amp
PS Audio BHK 250
PS Audio DSD DAC Sr
From what I’ve read, the P15 will give me better SQ. If the P12 can handle the load of my gear, I’ll be satisfied. Experienced help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
I would really push you toward the larger P15 if for no reason other than the BHK250. The P12 is going to be on the verge of struggle while the P15 comfortable. I think the difference in SQ will be well worth the extra coin.
I’m with Paul here. The P15 is the right choice for this size system. It would cruise right along with this load where the P12 would be pushed a little too hard for my liking.
Really? I used much the same gear on a p12 and it was hardly drawing 30% of its capacity according to the graph. The P12 will be fine.
I have just hooked up my new P12 the wattage drawn seems a little low is there something wrong with the screens?
It’s an Australian model
SPEAKERS: B&W 703 S2 (8ohm min 3.1ohm)
AMPLIFIER: Parasound A21+ (160W at idle and 300W at typical volumes quoted on spec sheet)
PREAMP/DAC: Stellar GCD (20W)
SOURCE: Innuos Zen Mini MK3 (15W)
The image was captured when I was playing music at around 70db but playing at 80 db made little difference to the power drawn
As long as the system is performing and sounding great I wouldn’t worry too much about it. The likely scenario is that at your listening levels and the efficiency of the speakers you aren’t asking for very much power from the amplifier. This also means you’ve got plenty of headroom which is also a great thing.
I use to have a P12. While it worked fine with my 200w per channel power amp and overall never consumed more than 400w maximum on the meter, and sounded much better than plugged straight to the wall, and was never strained, I found my new P20 sounded much, much, much better!! More at ease, more information, more uncompressed dynamic, really not even close!!