Digital sources are the worst and most confusing part and about hifi audio

Network Audio
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I am not sure I share this perspective. Broadly speaking, the artist vs. producers economic benefits have always been inequitable for a very large percentage of artists. Not everyone achieves superstardom AND the accumulation of great wealth along with artistic success.

I am not singling you out for criticism @DuneKidd. This topic pops up from time to time here and your post just prompted me to reply on the subject at this time.

That said, at the risk of sounding like I am virtue signaling, I generally use Roon, Tidal and Qobuz (I subscribe to all 3) to explore the, wide, wide world of music that is uniquely available via such services; and listen less critically (via Roon) in my office and on my computer, desk-top system. When I discover something I really enjoy, I purchase a physical copy of the recording if its is available (CDs or SACDs in my case - I don’t own a 'Table).

If you love something you find streaming, I suggest that you should buy it.

One man’s approach/opinion.

Cheers.

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A wonderful approach. Musicians actually get some money when you purchase a CD, even then not a lot.

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Unfortunately…

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44

My brief blurb was not in disagreement with what you had so aptly stated; but I can see that I should have stated it in context.

Without a doubt, those services allow a user to plumb the enormous depths of music that is currently available. As an example, by simply watching Tiny Desk Concerts over the years, I’ve been exposed to artists I would’ve never thought to search out and purchase; happily resulting in broadening my tastes into others genres.

I should have been more specific by saying that I find the remuneration paid to artists as being almost feudal in nature. A relationship which hasn’t changed all that much, even with advent of newer technologies and their associated mindsets.

With the rise of subscriptions music services, YouTube and the like - artists have new avenues for exposure, but still are receiving next to nothing in compensation.

That is why I expressed my pleasure in finding that Bandcamp practices a modern, more equitable way to balance the equation in favor of the artist rather than the purveyor. Even more so than Apple, Amazon and the like.

A rising tide lifts all boats is an adage I heartily subscribe to.

Cheers and happy listening!

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To me today’s style of music (streaming) is really like it was when I was growing up. I would listen to the radio and if I found something that I liked, I went a purchased a copy of it. Back then it was cassettes and LPs, sometimes 45s. The artist didn’t make any money when their songs was played on the radio, they made money from sales and shows. Today with streaming I control what I want to listen to. Clearly they don’t make a ton of money from streaming. I’m sure a very small amount of them make good money from steaming. Clearly the days of buying tons of CDs and LPs are gone as people listen different today compared to 30 years ago. But one still can purchase CD, LPs, or digital downloads.

The piracy part is still there. I remember when someone bought a new LP people would make copies (cassettes). I guess the difference is with the internet a larger group of people have access to piracy. In the old days I guess it stayed mostly in your neighborhood.

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And to you…

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Definitely the ideal - and preferably directly from the artist via mail order or at a gig :slight_smile:

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:+1: :+1:

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Thanks @Paul, When I wrote “I hope artists are making money”, it was wishful thinking. I have two 50+ years old performers in my family, both are perpetually broke. I became very suspicious of artist compensation in the 1960’s when I learned about all the many musicians who were never paid royalties. When they were compensated, it was pennies for some of their best creations. Like musicians. there are so many artists in other fields, example Van Gogh, who suffered for many reasons, tragically money was one of those reasons. I am sure there are others who would like to say more on this subject, so would I. But my reality is that I can do little to help them except buy a CD along the way. And admire and thank the artists always,

Chas

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For some years I worked as a recording engineer/producer. After holding on for a while I starting moving toward other career possibilities as it became clear that the economy to support recorded music just doesn’t exist. Most recordings are a net loss, usually not supported by a label, so basically an expensive demo tape that never recoups the costs. After a while, artists just can’t afford the services I offer, and it doesn’t feel right taking their money.

I didn’t mention it, but that is also a major reason I never got to streaming. With Tidal it almost equates, like if someone streams the song 100 times it’s about the same as buying off iTunes. Still…

Labels have historically majorly screwed over artists. In some ways it is good that the music industry has gone independent, but the other side is that there is no budget at all for studio recordings or promotion, and the ones screwing you are tech businesses that have nothing AT ALL to do with music. They just host a service and collect the money off other people’s work, in a way pressing plants and stores never could.

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This sums it up quite well. Sadly.

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Producers and record companies have been ripping off artists since music has been produced for sale.

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As I said, this is true AND now nobody gets paid, not the artists, not the producer, not the engineers, not the studio, etc, etc. Virtually nobody involved in recorded music is going to rich off of it, and artists have to make all their money touring. Only the business that owns the streaming service makes money, and they keep almost all of it.

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I continue to be amazed the entire music system does not collapse.

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I think it only works because musicians do what they’re dedicated to, no matter how bad the circumstances. And musicians want to be seen and heard, therefore they need the music industry no matter how bad they pay.

If you want, music and publishing it in fact is a hobby of the musicians and they are lucky if they get a bit of money out of it.

When musicians get angry about that and put economic matters in the foreground, they stop to be creative I guess.

They get exploited but can’t do anything about it than hope for their listeners to work against it. But we know how promising this is.

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Ian’s case is very similar to mine. I didn’t want to start another thread, so I’m posting here.

My Story: Up until 2 months ago, I had not ventured beyond physical disks and a handful of ripped disks to enjoy audio, however, a good friend has been on my case to give streaming / NAS vs physical media a try for several years, so I’ve dipped my toes in during the time at home with the purchase of a b-stock Cambridge CXN V2 to see how it would compare to my SACD / CD collection.

I’ve been pleasantly surprised with both the sound and flexibility of streaming and want to consider the next step; I’ve started research and searched forums to begin forming options, however, given the extensive experience here, I would like your thoughts on my next steps for streaming.

Current setup:
-Qobuz as Streaming service and laptop setup as media server for local files
-Using CA StreamMagic as Control Point
-CXN V2 is my Network Player, which feeds Esoteric SA50 DAC via SPIDF

From here, it’s BHK Pre/amp/speakers

Esoteric DAC via SPIDF will play up to 192 PCM; it has better separation and detail, but can be a bit analytical sounding a times; Cambridge internal DAC upsamples everything to 384PCM; it has a slightly warmer fuller mid bass but lacks the separation.

What I think I want - goals (obviously subject to change as I dig in deeper):

50% SACD/CD (Keep existing and move to NAS eventually)
30% Streaming/purchases from Qobuz*
20% NativeDSD / quality PCM files to purchase
*Not interested in Roon at this point, however Octave is an option once it goes live.

So, I’m considering the move to a better solution for streaming / playing downloads, that would also set me up for the future. I would more than likely just keep my Esoteric for physical media (at least at the moment).

Prefer WiFi into the room as my computer room with Modem/router/media server is ~50 ft away and one floor up, however, if ultimate benefits will come only with a wired solution, I will consider.

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A lot of options out there. Octave could answer your requirements. Like some others I gave up waiting and bought a really good ethernet-to-SPDIF renderer: a dCS Network Bridge. I use this with the music library stored on a remote NAS connected via a wireless bridge to the the hifi kit. Streaming from the NAS and internet (Spotify etc) is via AES/EBU connection to a PS DS DAC and discs via I2S from PS PWT transport to the DAC. Rock solid system and excellent sound quality.

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I will admit, very confusing indeed. However, once you reap the fruits of your labor you shall be very pleased. Most high end manufacturers have tech support as well. This is not MR. Coffee we are speaking of. Hint: Don’t call tech support unless the system is in front of you. If He tells you and special hidden menus would you please share? Thank you
They Are real class “a” stinkers. All the smallest companies .reason they want it is front of you is complexity. This stuff needs a PHD IMO. My issue is much simpler. Not even technical.

Please let us know how this all goes…