audiobill said IMO, all this will do is discredit Paul and Ted's work, suggesting that a stock DS is inadequate.It is NOT scripture - it's a DAC.
Step 1: Replacing all transformers in DS today with silver wound/special lamination editions. Should be done by noon EST.
Power and audio output transformers?
st50maint said Power and audio output transformers?Yes. All working perfectly. Letting everything cook overnight. Regressed FW and then loaded newest FW without any problems.
Shiloh the Golden Retreiver saidScripture has also been changed a lot over the years ... ahum, now let me see ... That would suggest the Bible is inadequate, eh? Well ... not to labor the point ....audiobill said IMO, all this will do is discredit Paul and Ted's work, suggesting that a stock DS is inadequate.It is NOT scripture - it's a DAC.
I understand and agree with your point, Shilo - just couldn’t resist!
I don’t get it either. It takes about a minute to download the new firmware and maybe one minute to install. That’s too much “futzing” and too much time and bother? For an amazing – and free – upgrade?
Meitner’
gordon said Well, this is, afterall, an open and PSA oriented forum. What better place to share the project info.While I do find the commercial offering of product rather premature, I also think that our schepticism and questions can be contributed in a way that does not alienate a product owner and fellow forum member. IE: let’s not burn someone at the stake for suggesting that the earth might NOT be flat.
If however, a major “improvement” is discovered by someone who risks canabalizing their own unit, then the sharing of that info certainly is appropriate, interesting and helpful.
As for credentials, Ed Meitner began his career as a home-bred tweaker and suffered some serious critizisms from the mainstream market. Thankfully his most demonstrative finger was strong and healthy.
This seems like a case of “how the info was shared” rather than the project itself.
For those of us who believe in evolution, it does not occur while sitting on status quo. It happens when we reach out beyond our present paradigms.
Don’t forget to have fun.
Meitner’s CDSA SE was an $11,500 dud. I hear he has really good models out now – appropriately priced.
Duke of Earl said I don't get it either. It takes about a minute to download the new firmware and maybe one minute to install. That's too much "futzing" and too much time and bother? For an amazing -- and free -- upgrade?Gene Chandler - the FW regress & update was just part of the testing process. It had nothing to do with the modifications.
Driving over to shop at 9 this morning. Has the SIlver Edition DS blown up? Melted down? We shall see.
Jupiter caps & Vishay resistors arrived yesterday but did not have time to install. The Furutech IEC will also go in today.
Shiloh & I are flying out for 10 days in Palo Alto end of week. My girlfriend e-commutes for a large tech company and is required to be on campus 4-5 times a year. During that time the SE-DS will be with The RUSTy group for play & eval. Since all the RUSTy people live in DC (except me) they can share the SE-DS among them while I am away and then critique.
BTW: the modification to the DS cover makes for very quick removal. A true time saver and looks very factory.
Duke
I guess we can all make the odd boohoo.
google the IDAT story. Long time ago and his comments of the time how 1bit was the only way to get Music out of a digital file.
He had major FLAC from the audio mags of the era for daring to nuke the 30 k chip DACs for only $2500.
edit
i did have one fun to read article on my drive that makes for interesting reading. Interestingly similar to what we are actually listening to today. Not just the player review but the mindset.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/meitner-cdsa-se-sacd-player/
I do not have a stock DS on hand but the SE version seems to run at a higher temperature. This is in no doubt because of the silver transformers.
Does it sound hotter?
billg said Does it sound hotter?It's not a sports car - but that would be cool. Jupiter caps & Furutech IEC installed. Vishay resistors tomorrow. Back at beach house now. I left SE-DS burning in overnight. All I have at shop are Audioengine 5+ speakers for auditioning - hardly up to Paul's IRS monsters.
If heat becomes an issue I will find an elegant way to vent top cover.
Any wagers on how these “tweaks” to Ted’s work will be reported?
audiobill said Any wagers on how these "tweaks" to Ted's work will be reported?What is your problem?
Yes what is it ?
Can’t resist commenting here. I’m amazed at some of the negativity I’m reading. I’m sure Paul and Ted are aware of this thread. I remember when another modding company started offering mods of the PWD and PWD II. Paul made it clear that those mods would compromise the integrity of the circuits and would negate the warranty. I’ve not read any such declaration by Paul or Ted. The DS is not being butchered. Key parts are being replaced with parts of exactly the same value but of higher quality. That’s all. I’m not sure how many high end companies have silver transformers in their design but it sounds like a promising experiment to me. Certainly there are plenty using Vishay resistors and Jupiter caps.
I’ve often wondered what could be possible if only the highest quality parts were used in Paul’s designs or for that matter if the same things were done to some of the other components I’ve owned. I’ve often wondered what the addition of a separate over the top dual mono power supply would make to any of the PS Audio DACS. I owned the Levinson #32 preamp and the at one time SOTA 30.6 Levinson DAC. Both of these components were built with power supplies in a separate unit. They sounded superb and were much better than their one piece siblings. ARC’s legendary preamp the SP-10 was built this way as well. So I’m pretty sure if PS Audio offered such a unit I’d be one of the first to buy one.
I consider Shiloh’s mods a great experiment. It’s possible that it makes the sound better, worse, or no improvement at all. It’s an experiment. I don’t see how this impacts PS Audio negatively at all. In fact if it improves things and customers line up for it it’s possible PS Audio might consider developing a premium no holds barred line.
At at any rate I’m surprised at some of the negative comments about this topic. If one is not interested why read this post at all?
Keep listening to one of the audio world’s premier DACs and enjoy the DS just the way it is.
As for the experimentation that the Rusty group is doing and paying for with their own money, I can’t wait to read about the results.
I agree with you Steve.
For me personally I will leave the DS stock standard therefore take advantage of Ted’s future upgrades knowing the sound signature he tailored along with PS audio Team.
There will only be a select few taking up the chance to modify the DS, there would be only a handful of people or perhaps none on the planet where the weakest link in their music chain would be the DS ; in my opinion that is. I would think most of us would look elsewhere in the music chain to improve sound heard.
Recently been experimenting with my Intel NUC having loaded windows server 2012 and wow quite a difference in sound between windows 8.1 and server 2012. And I haven’t even installed the audiofile optimiser yet, or got a linear supply for the NUC. I’m even interested in the ipurifier for USB, possibly modifying the NUC to accommodate the JCAT PCIE card - It never ends - G I’m thankful I never got the MAC mini I was thinking about.
Good luck with the mod 
cheers
John
sgrowan saidAs for the experimentation that the Rusty group is doing and paying for with their own money, I can’t wait to read about the results.
Thank you. It is our group’s money, we have not changed a single circuit, we have not asked for guidance or technical support. We just re-populated the boards with cost-no-object parts. If the SE ends up a failure no one will be hurt in any way whatsoever.
My best guess? There will be a demonstrable improvement but the cost will make the SE-DS prohibitive to all but a very select few. Perhaps that leaves you out audiobill and that is the substance of your true issue.
After I complete the SE-DS modifications and ship the unit to DC on Friday, my responsibilities to RUSTy are all but completed. As some of you already know, the first planned exhibit of the SE-DS will be at a greater DC area audio dealer the first week of November. This will be by invitation only (yea - cocktails). If that goes well, a NYC event is also planned along the same format.
What happens next is not up to me. The DC members/investors of RUSTy have all the contacts & clout - they are players. I have posted their CVs. They are also of deep pocket. If they like what they hear and decide to move forward I will build the SE units. Thus far I am committed to build 6 SE units - I only have silver transformers for that number.
A discrete, polished, brass plack will adorn the faceplate of the SE-DS with the RUSTy logo + SE is being designed by a DC graphics company. The logo is “Fe2O3 + SE” (but stylized somehow).
I believe I can deliver SE units for sale at $3000.00 + the DS. Not sure on that projection. Also, I have little say as to RUSTy’s ultimate decision.
I choose to think of the RUSTy project as a “homage” to Ted’s circuits.
Don’t take us not saying anything as an endorsement or a repudiation. We know nothing about the mods so we have no opinion.
Everything is built at a price point so I do believe that you can get good value from appropriate modifications.
Connectors are an obvious place to ‘voice’ a component and I don’t see why a responsible connector replacement would cause a problem.
On the other hand I don’t know how anyone knows what values in the datasheet of our components are critical and which aren’t. In general I don’t know of any available parts that have better specs for the intended use in the DS audio and digital cards. Also because they are all surface mount most of the boutique parts that are used in most mods won’t work: not only is physically fitting a problem but in many cases they can’t have the required parasitic specs by simple physics.
Many of the resistors in the audio path cost more than the typical Vishay resistors that might be used instead, and in some cases there are other parameters than their values which matter more. There are some places that we already know that using high quality Vishay resistors will degrade the sound.
There are no hookup wires in the audio path so using silver hookup wire must be for the power supply wiring, this may well cause a difference in sound but it doesn’t seem terribly cost effective. Replacing ribbon cables with silver wire/ribbon cables and keeping the other parasitics correct will be a good trick.
For example there’s no reason that using silver wire in either the audio transformers or the power transformer and keeping the appropriate other parameters correct will cause any more power draw or more heat dissipation.
All in all, I’m sure that the sound will be different (and may even be better in some ways, depending on the skill of the modders), but I’m reasonably sure that PS Audio won’t stand behind any non-connector mods to the digital or analog cards.
Also, in general, I don’t have any incentive to validate component choices and thereby indirectly give away which parameters matter most in a given situation - some of the component choices were very hard won.