DIY purist crossover cabling

Do It Yourself
1

I have a hard time deciding on affordable hook up wire for rewiring my crossovers some day.
I am a firm believer in geometry above material, but do think material always makes a difference, Galen Gareis has over the time convinced me at least from a strict engineering perspective that geometry, distances and choice of dielectric are to be considered above all else first (generalizing a bit, sorry). But that’s physics and there surely are a plethora of unknowns to say it lightly.

So I’d like to make (at least semi-) affordable crossover cabling with some known and nature’s-law-endorsed geometry that’s actually possible for DIY construction with limited tools. (Suggestions on must-have simple tools welcome)

Do suggest affordable good quality wires and dielectrics and where to get them (in EU preferably) and of course, sensible geometries to consider. I know there’s tutorials, I just want to make sure it’s a purist approach.
Quality copper is fine, no interest in silvering my already forward sounding snappy speakers with an over-etched detail storm. (Yes, silver isn’t bright per se, but it has its signature (tied to dielectric) which just always isn’t preferable… Kondo silver or such might be great but that’s upper league.)

About 14AWG is enough for 4ohm, 89dB, 20-150W speakers, right?
I’d like as many thin conductors as possible but yes, practically applicable. Suggestions on individual wire gauge and number of conductors, please, and again, geometry considered. Don’t wanna be just twisting conductor pairs, no fun.

Silver solder, yes. How about “graphene paint”…?
Okay let’s not go there. Or maybe…

Many thanks in advance. If you think all this would be a superfluous chore, please say so. Could be that it’s more cost and time effective to just buy prebuilt wire! (Sure it is…) Though that’s not so fun either and it’s NOT DIY for sure.

1 Like
2

What is the reason for your forward biting sound? The type of chassis used or the capacitors used? There are good wires from Duelund and Neotech. Neotech features high quality copper OCC and silver. German highend also offers silver wire in three different qualities. Axmann also has silver wire you can make yourself. I replaced the copper bridges on my crossover a few days ago. I still had a leftover MCS solid core 0.75 mm from German high-end. This alone makes the speakers sound more dynamic, clean and with more timbres. The MCS Silver does not have its own sound.

3

What do you mean by that though, even the attribute alone of it being a conductor without any sound signature would still make it have the aforementioned sound (of its own) ; ((unless there is a class of materials all capable of this feat))

4

It is thus in relation to other cables. Copper cables have their own signature. The exception is the duelund, which sounds quite neutral. Audioquest Silver also has a sound of its own. At German Highend, PSS silver is the entry-level class, followed by LGS and top is MCS silver. Compare the Audioquest Storm Power Cables. The structure and the plugs are identical. The only difference is the material used for the ladder. Alld sound different and create their own sound.

5

This is why full silver Iconoclast cabling would be something very interesting.
Most designs using exotic material don’t have extremely and rigorously optimized geometry.

In a way the Iconoclast TPC series is a testament from the end of geometry where it allows to satisfactorily overcome most downfalls of “just typical copper”
But if it was 7N silver…

6

Does 7N Silver even exist? For cables, 4-5 N is quite good. German highend told me their best MCS is 4-5 N and anything else would be old wives tales.

1 Like
7

Does 6N silver exist? 99.9998% was the purist silver I have heard, but I could be wrong. It was from a reading a few years back, but I do not have great memory anymore :laughing:

8

Here is from Chris of VH Audio:

Here’s the scoop, based on my experience in this market:

VH Audio sources its raw silver from a lab that supplies a chemcial analysis for the purity of silver content. VH Audio also obtains a chemical analysis of the silver AFTER the wire has been processed, to confirm it meets or exceeds the .99999 (99.999% or 5N) purity standard VH Audio claims.

For over 20 years, I have worked with many of the most reputable high-purity silver refiners in the world, and not one has confirmed the existence of 99.9999% (6N) silver, produced in any viable quantity for making large lots of wire. While this doesn’t necessarily mean this material doesn’t exist in small lab-grade quantities, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to be used for silver wire in large lots.

There HAVE been some wire vendors overseas who ‘round up’, or claim that the manufacturing process itself adds purity to the material, but I haven’t seen any evidence of this pushing the material from .99999 (5N) to .999999 (6N) purity. Most material advertised as .999999 (6N) is usually found on eBay or similar sources on Asian sites. While I don’t necessarily believe these people are knowingly (falsely) selling lower purity silver as 6N or 5N, they likely are taking someone else’s word for it and simply not willing to pony-up the $$$ to verify. If suspicious of the vendor’s purity claim, I would suggest asking them for a lab analysis of the material they sell.

All VH Audio UniCrystal OCC silver is guaranteed to meet or exceed the purity claims. VH Audio has (on premises) a third party, lot specific, chemical analysis for any silver material we use, independent from service vendor(s) who actually draw the wire down, insulate, or cable our material. We keep the ‘honest’… ‘honest’. In short, if we say it’s .99999 purity… it IS .99999, at a minimum.

If we could find, and offer TRUE .999999 purity at a reasonable price… we would. Until proven otherwise, VH Audio considers 6N, .999999, and 99.9999% silver to be the equivalent of lightning striking a Leprechaun, while riding a Unicorn .

Caveat Emptor.

Best regards,

Chris VenHaus
VH Audio / V-Cap

1 Like
9

Thanks for the description of VH Audio.
So I’m reassured that my silver conductor MCS is of high quality and I can’t upgrade it.:rofl:
I bought a Dragon XLR cable from Aliexpress. The wires are loose in a teflon tube and I swapped them out for MCS silver. The cable sounds fantastic. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to compare it directly with the Audioquest yet. It immediately sounded better than my Audioquest Earth. After about 500 hours it sounded even better. At the beginning, slight distortions could still be heard. After burnin, it sounds smooth, is even more spatial and dynamic with wonderful timbres. Sooner or later I’ll have to compare it to the Audioquest Dragon. I think it’s going to be tight for the Audioquest. :wink:
Although my hifi dealer is of the opinion that Audioquest has the best silver, 8N.:thinking: A comparison could be exciting.:rofl: Especially since my cable didn’t even cost a tenth.
In Germany, you can also purchase plagiarisms for your own use. In some countries not. And patent rights must be observed. The DBS has a US patent. That doesn’t count in China. By the way, the Audioquest packaging says Made in China.

10

I am sure the knockoff Dragon does not have the same silver content and purity as the authentic one. Otherwise Aliexpress should sell it more than their listed prices even for a knockoff.

They probably sound great too, but I do not know if someone actually compared the real vs. conterfeit cables. Some other brands they do have comparisons and the authentic ones sounded better (many by a large margin too as I remember).

11

I had listened to the Audioquest Dragon at my dealer and was impressed by the sound. I just think the price is overkill. 1.5 meter XLR cost over 16000 €. Then, by chance, I saw a Dragon on Aliexpress. The dealer wrote me that it was the same silver that Audioquest uses. Since you can easily exchange the silver wire, I ordered it and got another, better silver wire. I hesitated between German high-end and Neotech. I chose the wire with MCS from German highend. I hadn’t listened to the original Dragon Aliexpress and immediately swapped wires as I intended it to be my craft project. If my dealer is no longer afraid of a comparison, I will compare it with the original. Although my XLR doesn’t have much in common with the Aliexpress anymore. I’d like to compare it to see if I need to do any further tweaking. I could also change the insulation, only then I wouldn’t have much left of the original one. The plugs seem to be at least the same as the ones installed by Audioquest. The insulation/ PTFE hose is slightly stiffer than the original. I could change the shield. Use another coat, possibly made of basalt or Techflex Carbon. Attach an additional 360 degree JSSG shield. Better plugs from Furutech or Eti reserche. At the moment I like how it sounds.
Maybe I could take a look at the DBS and swap the capacitors used.
I could also experiment with EMI suppression. 3M or crystals or diamond as it is done with the epluggs. Audio magic Black diamond color.
WA Quantum or Phonosophie Chips. Synergistic also has something in the program. It might be possible to increase that. Maybe I should consider it before comparing it to the original to make my dealer cry.:rofl:

2 Likes
12

I have no doubt it sounds great. As I mentioned I have a copy of Nordost Orion 2 power cord that uses sliver plated OFC, just like the real one. I changed to Furutech plugs and I like it better than a Steath V10 that retails for 30 times more. But some online discussions said it was no where near the SQ of the real one. This particular PC has the most copies selling online. Some even said the conductors are the same. But, if they are selling knockoffs they would of course said they are the same.

Anyway, with the Furutech plugs I keep it in use for my LHY SW-10 switch, and it improves the SQ. However, it is still the worst sounding cord compared to my others. :slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like
13

Unfortunately, this is often the case in forums that nobody has really compared both cables. But the other plugs certainly make a significant difference. Only I looked at the Dragon setup and figured it’s not magic. The structure is not really complicated. I was able to easily swap the signal wire. I could also change the DBS. There remains only the PTFE hose and the insulation. I could swap that too. Only then could I have saved myself the actual Aliexpress cable.:wink:

1 Like
14

I’m also looking forward to how I can apply it to my game which is Toca Life World Modilimitado