DSD DAC Price Drop?

Exactly true. Spooky action indeed. :slight_smile:

If I find myself unreasonably lusting after a new piece of replacement kit, I remind myself that my current unit is just as wonderful today as the day I bought it. The introduction of a new unit does not change this.

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Yah. Every expensive thing that I have ever bought - I have never had buyer remorse. It’s always been ‘this was a great move’ because I enjoy the hell out of my stuff.

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It’s one of the good things about capitalism. I always shop for hobby items by performance first within a roughly pre-determined price range or budget. I do not rely on future sales potential and assume everything hobby related depreciates at least 50% as soon as you open the box. Some things more than that especially if it has moving parts.

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Well, this topic has gone off the rails a bit, but my point still stands. One who does his homework doesn’t make a purchase of a high dollar, highly rated, well reviewed piece of “high end” audio equipment expecting the manufacturer to undercut or damage the resale value of their own product. Again, I’m not saying that is what PS Audio did here - the very basis of my post was a question - asking people if someone could remind me about the price history on the DSD DAC within the last year or so.

That question was answered, I think. But then I start getting email alerts that other people were misinterpreting the intent of my post and some of the replies it got, as well as making broad brush statements about what one should and should not do or expect when one makes a certain type of purchase, and worse, that some of us here concerned about resale value are really just closet haters that “don’t want another guy to get a good deal”, which is plain ridiculous on its face, so I decided to try to correct that misunderstanding.

I suspect that PS Audio wants to make a claim, by way of its higher end “reference” components, to the same section of the hi-fi or “audiophile” market as McIntosh or Krell or even Mark Levinson. I make this judgment by MSRP of the top of the line PSA products and what I’ve read in Stereophile and the other reviews (many linked to here at PSA’s product pages). How often does Krell or McIntosh hold a 1/2 off sale on one of their flagship products? Even ones that are about to become obsolete or less in-demand? They don’t - because they sell to dealers at a fixed price (probably with volume discount and such) - and it’s on the dealers to make deals and decide how much margin they are willing to lose. Up until very recently PS Audio was using a similar sales model, with dealers out there charging roughly the same list prices on PS Audio products that you would find on the website.

Right about the time that they stopped doing this, the DSD DAC (and other high end components?) were steeply discounted on what I have learned is a temporary basis. I wouldn’t at all blame the hypothetical someone needing to sell or trade his PSA product purchased at the higher price a few months before for being pissed. Someone else waiting longer to buy, without the benefit of “insider knowledge”, wasn’t “shopping smarter”, they were lucky or broke and didn’t hit “buy” until the product was deeply discounted. The retail industry in the U.S. has long had ways to deal with scenarios like this, BTW. Anyone remember, as a kid, your mom finding a circular in the mail or newspaper with a dress advertised at 30% off what she just paid for it the previous week? Did she take that coupon down to the store and did they refund her 30% of the purchase price? I do - that was common in the 70s and 80s. I’m sure the mail order electronics retail industry has some similar “good faith” practices.

Notice that I never went so far - nowhere near for that matter - to imply or theorize that PS Audio was trying to somehow manipulate the used market now that they’ve gone direct, by lowering the amount that they would have to offer in trade for their own used products in the upgrade program. Hmmm…now that wouldn’t really make sense in this case, right? After all, we are talking about non-obsolete items. I know of no plans to phase out the DSD DAC, or the top of the line pre-amps or amplifier, even though that’s PS Audio’s right to do any time they want. But if they were cynical profiteers - and I think this demonstrates that they are NOT - they could also drastically reduce the prices, even temporarily, on their “lower end” gear, especially gear that is on the block to be replaced or upgraded (such as the 50W Sprout to the new 100WPC Sprout - which is a bad example because of how long ago it happened) so as to drive down the amounts of trade in credit they offer to customers looking to upgrade to the aforementioned high end lines. Voila! Instant higher margins! But what a pain in the butt, right? I know that PS Audio is NOT doing this.

But I digress - I don’t think you’ll ever find McIntosh or Krell discounting their products, even though their business model is (now) slightly different than PS Audio’s - UNLESS - said product is about to become obsolete. Hell, I don’t even think they have temporary sales! Hence, because of this and the fact that they make high quality products, instant devaluation is not a huge issue with Mc or Krell products. You can buy an amp and then three months later probably sell it for near what you paid retail minus, say, shipping. But if during the interim, McIntosh had done a fire sale on the amp, at half price or so, and made it known that this kind of sale would repeat in the future (at prices lower than or equal to the current used market value), then I’d have a much tougher time selling my unit on the used market!

Now to the varying notions of what one should or shouldn’t do or expect from this hobby. I’m not making judgments like some others appear to be, tacit or implied. Some of us have more “volatile” situations in regard to a hobby like this. Size requirements can change rapidly, we may find a new product or a used one that we get a chance to hear and think “sounds better” than the one we currently have, or we may just need to sell for a personal financial reason, or emergency. Trying to paint anyone who asks the questions that those of us who do dabble in used stuff tend to ask, as some kind of fanatical equipment switchers, constantly cycling audio equipment in and out of our systems, is ridiculous. And I will repeat - buying used is a great way to experience the real “high end” in this hobby, because for one thing, markups are out of this world on new equipment (and I know this from personal experience with mfg.s like JBL and others) and it’s only a matter of time before you can find it used for less than half the cost (generally speakers are the worst here - they lose more value quicker - 2nd worst IMHO would be electronics that don’t have a raft of favorable industry reviews floating around (PS Audio doesn’t have that issue)). There is still nothing wrong with people whose hobby IS to cycle as much equipment in and out of their system as possible, but I don’t think that myself or anyone else who has responded to this topic meets that definition.

Re: the Corvette price drop - Yeah that’s actually very standard. Like “mass produced” “high end” audio, margins are also VERY high for “mass produced” sports cars and it’s standard to discount them (and still make a hefty profit) seasonally or when a new model update is anticipated. That’s smart shopping - assuming you’re not rich and obsessed with having the “best” and the “latest” in which case, screw frugality - you’re waiting for the C8 (or whatever the next in line is). Not sure how many Corvettes they make each year for sale worldwide, but with the Mustang, the margins go way up as you start going down the product line. Eg. the Shelby models, some of which have optional magnetic suspension and carbon fiber brakes, with the high revving naturally aspirated V8, are produced in much smaller numbers and margins tend to be lower, because lower margins will be offset by the average buyer putting down $30,000 for a loaded V-6/Ecotec or base model 5.0, usually on 5-8 year notes (which is another way that the auto industry can make such obscene margins), but the Corvette is kind of unique. Might actually be a very good analogue to the DSD DAC!

P.S. I forgot to mention it earlier, but in this day and age it’s very hard to actually audition audio products, especially expensive ones, before purchasing. A consumer must have the credit or cash on hand in order to try these products out in their system if they wish to buy new, even if they do get a full refund within 30 days assuming they didn’t like it. I can’t remember the last time I was able to go to a hi-fi shop and compare a reasonable range of high end stereo gear. So a lot of people often hear these products on the used market. I think having a high used resale value benefits both the mfg. and the customer in the long run.

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Agree with you, but there are some items that don’t immediately depreciate like that as soon as you open the box. As I mention below, McIntosh is an easy example, but so is the PS Audio DSD DAC - you can find them selling used for about 60% of retail a few years after the fact. That’s pretty good, assuming that the used buyer ends up paying the asking price.

Anyway, I never meant to imply that I paid full retail price for my DSD DAC to begin with, LOL. I actually got a very good deal on it. Brand new.

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If one happens to agree with you.

Frankly, I am unable too parse through the wall of text to be certain what your point is. :slight_smile:

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But …but…but…
Mid-engine Vette, dude!!
Can’t be seen in yesterday’s ride, can we??? :grin: :grin: :roll_eyes:

TL/DR for the shorter attention spans: There is no “right” or “wrong” way to pursue this “hobby” - but there seem to be several among us who think there is, including you and one other person on this thread. Also, it is good for customers when a company’s “higher end” product resale values remain relatively stable long term. This is helped by stable prices when sold as new, sales and promos notwithstanding.

You should ask PS Audio to implement a character limit if you can’t read more than a few paragraphs at a time. Let’s have a Twitter-esque forum. That would be fun! Not.

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I have made no claim as to the “right” way to pursue any hobby. Please cite to what I wrote which states this. I only described my approach.

I can easily read a wall of text and did. This however does not make it any more clear or persuasive. :slight_smile:

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I have made no claim as to the “right” way to pursue any hobby. Please cite to what I wrote which states this. I only described my approach.

“I assume everything I buy new will rapidly depreciate, especially technology and hobby related toys. I also tend to make a decision and keep my purchases a long time. The potential future value of the piece of kit used is not part of my purchase decision.”

I said you clearly “think” there is a “right” way and you stated what it is for you. There isn’t much more to say on that. Of course you also went on in your next paragraph to drop a veiled insult at those who you say “churn” through equipment as though having the equipment in their system is the only reason they buy it at all. So forgive those of us who read what you wrote as opining on the “right” way to do it. Make sense? If not, please try to be clear as to why not.

I can easily read a wall of text and did. This however does not make it any more clear or persuasive.

For one thing, a “wall of text” in Internet and bbs lingo is an continuous, single stream of sentences without paragraph breaks. Obviously the post of mine to which you refer had several clear paragraph breaks, double spaced. Hence your use of the term “wall of text” is merely another veiled insult because that’s just how you roll, even if you don’t even understand the terms you are using.

For another, I was never trying to persuade you of anything. I provided a general response to several previous posts in which I addressed your comment about the Corvette pricing at the end. Still, at no point did I care or try to persuade you - or anyone else - of anything. The point that manufacturers drastically reducing their new product prices on a permanent or semi-permanent level for no apparent reason hurts their existing customers in ways including reduced resale value is a point that stands. Regardless of whether someone as dense as you decides to try to understand it, given that you clearly think your approach (buying things with no intent of ever selling in the future, therefore ignoring future resale value) is the ‘right’ one - and that you are willing to sit here defending that approach for no reason other than saving face in a silly Internet squabble of your own making.

Do you always butt into every thread on this site to defend some ill-defined philosophy of PS Audio on their behalf? From what I can tell the answer is “mostly, yes.”

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Ok. Right. Everybody should pay sticker to protect people’s ‘investments’.

LMAO - maybe you could point out to one of us who said that and where.

I didn’t pay anywhere near sticker for any of the four (4) PS Audio components (or any other manufacturer) I have in my current setup. But that doesn’t mean I don’t shrug or wince when a manufacturer makes deep cuts in the price of those components within a year or less of my purchase, hence limiting my ability to seek a decent return if I need to or choose to sell/trade in.

I find something satisfactory and work out a deal which makes me happy as well as the seller obviously - or he wouldn’t sell it.

Yes, that’s called doing business. And it’s not remotely in the scope of the OP or the conversation I was having with a few of the other guys here. You’re the one who projected this strange opinion that some of us were somehow trying to ruin good deals on PS Audio’s site for others.

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Exactly. I stated my approach and - as you acknowledge - labeled it as such. It clearly is not a declaration there is a single “right” way.

Also, as I noted, if you go through a lot of equipment or do not know how long you will keep a piece “it makes excellent sense to buy used to avoid a good share of the depreciation.” This observation should insult no one.

Leaving aside I post in relatively few threads, this is a truly bizarre comment. I express only my opinion (again, you acknowledged you understand it is my opinion alone). What appears to have you worked up is I disagree with you.

Sheesh.

(By the way, there is nothing disparaging about the term “churn.” This refers to “churn rate”, a business term meaning a measure of the number of items moving out of a collection over a period of time.)

It was 9 paragraphs and it meandered all over the place. Nobody is asking for Twitter here, but don’t act like that wasn’t a wall of text. I think it is literally the longest post I’ve seen on this forum during my time here.

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Glad I didn’t read it.
(Hope he gets a mirror for Christmas!)

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I don’t think it’s my imagination but since Paul announced that PSA was going to go Direct Sales only there seems to be an unnecessary increase in threads/posts complaining about how much things cost, trade-in values and resale. That is in addition to the members who seem to think we all need to know about their financial situation plus what their wife’s, girlfriends or significant others will or won’t let them buy. I don’t know about everyone else but I have no need to know other members financial situation in discussing the merits of pieces of audio gear. You can either afford to buy it or you can’t and whining about what you think of the prices will have no effect on what a manufacturer is going to charge whether it be PSA or another company. If you want to “make a deal” then pick up the damn phone and call somebody not post about it in a public forum. If you want recommendations or advice about gear and have a budget then state the budget and stop. I don’t need to know why it is what it is. I am sure this will go on deaf ears to the regular offenders as nothing seems to get through to them so far. My 2 cents.

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I think we are getting somewhere. So- it’s ok for you to get a steep discount on the products you buy… you just don’t like it when other people get a steep discount because it could impact your return on your originally discounted product if you sell it . Oh - I see now. …

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Thanks for counting. And reading. And in order to address/reply to several previous comments, yes, it pretty much had to “meander all over the place.” And really, who cares whether it was the longest post you think you’ve seen? What is the point in your reply and interjection into a thread where you’ve not previously offered anything at all?

It’s called a “Clue”.

Please re-read everything that you think you’re responding to and look for the following data points - 1) Me or anyone else offering judgment one way or the other on what’s “ok” in terms of discounts either for PS Audio to offer or for customers to seek out; 2) Me or anyone else stating that we are actually currently in the process of selling anything, much less extremely concerned about any specific return on investment, and complaining that we are about to take a price hit. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

The whole thread started with me asking a simple question - Was the DSD DAC discounted (steeply) at any point in the past year and if so, by how much. Then after that question was pretty much answered, myself and a few others entered into a discussion about how it might not help our resale value if indeed that (and other products) were to fluctuate in price or be offered at deep discounts on regular intervals, undercutting the retail by, oh - I don’t know - 30% or something. It was all pretty vague and anecdotal.

In fact YOU are the one of the first to chime in with actual judgments about what’s “ok” or who is right or wrong (to whatever degree) in “smart shopping”, buying, selling, pricing, or what have you, even though you clearly hadn’t bothered to read very carefully before interjecting.

So is this just something you kind of get off on? Arguing about stuff that you, yourself, have said right here in this thread is not even important to you? LOL - Seriously, that’s hilarious. And essentially, whether you or the rest of the cyber nanny brigade realize it, your purpose is to have a chilling effect on conversation that doesn’t meet your unstated standards. This is a free country, bubba. You don’t like what someone’s saying, you don’t have to read it. But if you’re going to make a response to something or someone you don’t like, and an attempt at a condescending one at that, you should probably make sure you actually understand what the person to whom you are responding is or is not really saying. You totally missed the boat on this one.

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First off I’m not Christian. But if for some reason other than that I don’t get a mirror, at least I got a few new vanity trolls, you included. And hey - Look! You got yourself a few new fans too! So it’s a win win! Now what’s your point again in being involved in this conversation other than pure boredom? A clue?

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