Yes it’s no question that the DAC doesn’t do the decompression. And the Bridge (and probably any other Streamer) does it (for MQA unfold and seemingly also Flac/AIF). If we talk of a server in terms of a unit with included streamer, the whole unit certainly does everything. But if we talk of a PC as server or another server with not applied conversion before sending the stream to a separate streamer, then the decompression is done on streamer side. So far my humble understanding (I’m no expert).
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Thanks! The T7 has worked fine so far, and I backed up files in different T7s too. I have additional backups in Office Cloud storage. My files grow like weeds and eventually I may go with NAS.
Generally the server does the heavy lifting (including decompression) and send raw PCM (unimpressed) to the end point. End points tend to be low horsepower devices on purpose.
I’m sorry that I’m not yet convinced, as too many things get mixed up. That a server is a higher horsepower device than a streamer or and endpoint, has nothing to do with where decompressing is usually done if the server isn’t explicitly configured to do so.
The endpoint is not the streamer, but the DAC in my understanding. Nobody assumed the DAC is decompressing, we were talking of server vs. streamer.
In my understanding, the streamer sends raw PCM to the endpoint (DAC), not the server (except if you use the term ‘server’ for a combination of server+streamer).
I’m not sure anymore if you know more than me, what you’re talking about or less, I just know that I know little. I bet there are many here more competent than both of us.
What is the streamer? Most people say the streamer is the device playing the music files stored in another location or from a locally attached storage device. The streamer is what I am referring too as the server. It serves the music to the DAC either by local connection or via an endpoint over Ethernet.
In my case, the streamer is the Roon Server running on an M1 Mac mini. The music is sent over Ethernet to an ultraRendu which is attached to my DAC via USB. When I had the DirectStream with the Bridge II card, the card acted as a Roon end point. It was passed PCM by Roon as Roon uncompressed the FLAC files and handle the conversion to PCM. The DAC is not often the end point. It is only the end point if it has an Ethernet connection built in or added via a card like with the DirectStream using the Bridge II card.
With the “streamer” AKA server attached directly to the DAC via USB, AES, SPDIF, etc., the server must uncompress the FLAC files as the DAC does not know how do so.
Even the Qobuz app decodes FLAC files to PCM before sending them on to the DAC.
@Elk
Every time we talk about streamers, endpoints, servers, DACs in this sorta context a lot of the differences of opinion seem to stem from the different understandings of the terminology.
Wouldn’t 'alf be useful if there was a pinned definitions post/thread on the main page, curated and approved by someone who knows, rather than the free for all most of these threads turn into (I like the free for all, it’s what this is all about, but a definitions/glossary post/thread should not have extraneous discussion).
Maybe it already exists, and I just haven’t seen it?
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An excellent idea.
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I do not understand the value of engaging in conversation with that guy. His rule is simple, “Only I know the real truth and I am never wrong”. Why bother with someone like that? I never even see his posts.
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Shifting gears a hair, @aangen do you have any comment on various DSD resolutions played back via the MU1?
I haven’t had a chance yet to test various DSD and PCM resolutions, but I’d be interested to hear any of your observations… if de-railing this thread isn’t offensive.
As a personal aside, I’m loving the MU1 and Roon. I’ve already purchased the lifetime subscription since it’s such a clear win over the Lumin app which I’ve been using on my T2. Since the T2 is now Roon-compatible, I’m guessing I’ll put Roon to use for streaming at my office as well.
Even though it down samples DSD256 It sounds so much better than anything else. DSD64 Is upsampled and I believe DSD128 might be as well. I am not sad with any of the three. This week I took the Pink faun out of the system and hooked the MU1 up to my NAS and it really is a special device. I think DSD has a very slight edge on PCM…
Edit) The thing is, the Grimm MU1 is a fantastic sounding device, something you can listen to for hours on end. But as great as it sounds, as wonderful as it is, playing a CD of anything or any track at any bitrate on the Grimm, the CD DESTROYS the MU1 with the Ethos. I wouldn’t believe anybody who accurately described how sweet that unit is. It makes zero sense that there was that much secret information in a lowly 16.44.1 spiral of pits. It’s just weird. And damned enjoyable.
Don’t get me wrong, when you are listening to the Grimm you aren’t thinking you are missing out on anything. Ooops.
And of course vinyl still crushes all. Sorry doubters.
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From the DirectStream DAC product page:
“DirectStream converts every input signal, both PCM and DSD, to single-bit, high sample rate 20X DSD signal.”
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What is a 20x DSD signal? Sorry, maybe stupid question…
An upsampling rate that is high enough to be able to do the downsampling math cleanly on output to any of the available rates.
It is a bit like how in a DAW, even when recording in 24 bit, the processing of EQ and effects and so on is done in 32 bit float.
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But we haven’t even heard the DSD MkII yet, nor the TSS!
(I know, I know. I’m an optimist… but even I’m not expecting miracles that exceed the reach of your Ethos.)
That said, pretty sure vinyl can’t automatically throw new discs on that might rev me up, like Roon + Streaming can…
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Actually I wanted to do exactly that…open a thread “trying to understand streaming terminology and processes“. I decided to ask someone who really knows and who was very helpful before…Inuous support.
As (for those interested) the info is short and all I needed to know, I just post it here again as a last, but this time professionally confirmed information. Speed racer is correct that a DAC is usually only named „endpoint“ if it incorporates a network connection. He’s wrong regarding the basic topic he started. In a separate server/streamer environment, the streamer or bridge decodes, not the server (except if it is set up to generally transcode everything to a certain decoded format). The server when playing back any file in its native format, transfers it to the streamer like this, where it’s then decoded. So it’s comprehensible that the additional CPU usage while decompressing Flac could influence the streamer’s sound quality, no matter if the streamer is standalone or incorporated into a server. Maybe even more in case the streamer is incorporated into the DAC.
That’s not what I said. I said the server, which is often what people define as the streamer, is what does the decoding. The Roon environment is a prime example. The Roon Core (server) can be connected directly to a DAC or communicate with a DAC through an end point over Ethernet. In both cases, the Roon Core (server) decompresses the FLAC files and send PCM to the DAC or the end point.
What are you calling the “server”? Because that is what most people call the “streamer”. The Roon Core (server) accesses music files either from locally attached storage, network-based storage, or Qobuz or Tidal. The Roon Core (server) is also the “streamer” which is why I said previously that the server is the streamer. The end point is NOT the streamer.
I try to focus on where we agree:
If the streamer is integrated with a server (like your Roon example or and Innuos server), then one may call the whole unit server or streamer, as you want, as both is in it. But the streamer part inside decodes, not the server part.
The streamer is the endpoint, if it (by the necessary SW snippet) acts as an endpoint for the server SW/protocol. If it does not, it is not.
What I previously called server in an environment of e.g. a PC and Jriver installed on it, is exactly this. The streamer in this case is the Bridge .
But if we continue, we should have started the other thread, so I’ll stop.
From the Bridge II manual:
“The PS Audio Network Bridge II provides network connectivity to a media server or NAS. The Network Bridge is a UPnP compatible device, requiring a UPnP server and controller to stream to the Bridge. A program like JRiver Media Center, available on both Mac and Windows platforms, can be configured to act as both a UPnP server and Controller.”
The Bridge II card is streamed to…it is not the streamer.
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Maybe this discussion about streamers and servers nomenclature is now off topic?
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Back to @Paul question…
I would love proper DSD256. In my case they would be stored on a NUC/ ROONserver going into my MOLA MOLA DAC.
It promises great fun to compare them to my existing Octave collection. Looking forward and thanks for all efforts.
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