Perhaps the ASR unit was faulty. Anything is possible.
Could Paul/Ted not test this (on video) in their lab with a known working unit? Seems easy enough.
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@psauadiofan I donāt speak expressly for either Paul or Ted. Ask them.
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@psauadiofan I donāt speak expressly for either Paul or Ted. Ask them.
Consider the question rhetorical.
And the request has been made multiple times by multiple posters.
@Elk in post #355 indicated that the question indeed remains unanswered. Frankly the roundabout is becoming dizzying
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That will never happen. ASR seems dead set on disrupting PS Audio and will never let go. They will always find something to moan and complain about and Amir the Merciless is just a total winger.
My personal viewpoint, shared by some others, is that no one from the PS Audio team (Paul, Ted or the delivery guy) should ever engage with ASR again. Not one word.
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The output impedance of an amplifier is changed by the load which is the speaker + cables. The cableās load impedance varies with frequency and no two designs are the same. Speaker impedance changes with frequency and no two are the same. The amplifierās ability to drive a reactive load varies with combined load impedance.
Are the basic facts of circuit theory gone? If we change either the speaker or the cable, the reactive data will impact how the amplifier operates. Nothing is a resistor.
A null test is not sensitive enough in dynamic response, worse than static, to show what the reactive impedance sweep does on two cablesā¦they are all decidedly different and the proper way to measure those differences are LCR meters and swept impedance. Same as we do with a speaker.
We all seem to agree how amps and speaker can be very different playing music and the cable in the chain effects that too. Itās adding to the reactance the amplifier drives.
A null testers fails to show the significantly different cable parameter, or anything really, tested to industry standards. For this reason null tests canāt be used to define HOW those components reach their properties or even to indirectly say what those specifications are.
Why are all cable the same when a proper LCR meter and a swept impedance trace shows that they are not, and those variations describe how they terminate into yet another reactive load, our speakers, and how that impact the amplifier. Every inch of this circuit theory is well defined. It is complex, yes, but the math and theory is there and will show the differences based on component parameters where the null test does not.
We still have the ability to hear, or not, the range of proven variations in all our stuff. But to say that amps, cables and speakers are the same is a stretch too far. We already have the needed data to know those differences. Once we know the differences, we then can listen within our systems for meaningful changes.
We should buy the specs for audition, better is better, but at some point it is expensive to get better, and the potential improvements to lessen the distortion chain can get WORSE. How?
What is so hard to grasp, is that the distortions are REACTIVE and unpredictable in a system verses just the single component by itself. We can indeed hear WORSE with ābetterā components under specific chains of equipment. The math already illustrates this can happen and why we still need to listen. Where a speakerās low impedance point is and amps ability to drive it make differences, same as where a speakerās impedance magnitude changes. Cable adds to those reactive changes for good or bad.
Sorry for the longer post, but the total reactive nature of our hobbies performance is indeed changed with every amp, cable or speaker interaction. We love to hate this interaction but it is indeed real.
Best,
Galen
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@psauadiofan It appears that you want to use me as the sounding board for your angst. Please refrain from doing so, Iām not receptive to it. Thanks
For what itās worth. . . I use a P15 in my main system and I have alternately placed my DSD and PST in the High Current Outlets, and my Decware Monoblocks. None of the components that I have really seem to need to use these outlets due to in-rush.
I canāt tell any sonic or performance difference between these components plugged into these outlets or into any of the other pairs of outlets. So I have the mono block amplifiers plugged in the High Current because they are the first pair on the right and itās very easy to just push that button on or off when using the system.
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Perfectly understandable answer, Galen. Thanks. Weāre lucky to have you here.
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ASR is always disrupting PS Audio ? If it does what itās supposed to do, he writes this:
Review and Measurements of PS Audio S300 PWR Amp | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Some people here obviously struggle to look at things objectively here.
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But, who is John Galt!?
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Iād even say they should shut down the forums, since itās clearly not hifi family anymore and probably distracts from their goals. Doubt this is a popular thought. Ha!
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@wobblewobble And yet on page 5 (post 87) of the review Amir makes the claim of falsehood on the part of PS Audio and testing methodology. Go figure.
Speaking of that, Amir posted in the P12 review a video of him trashing PS Audio and other companies, and proclaimed that the industry doesnāt teach Standards testing and ABx testing as if he discovered it, and fails to understand that engineers in the industry have long before Amirās showing up on the scene has for over half a century utilized these concepts. Dr Toole certainly has been teaching these concepts in his publications since the 80ās and 90ās. I think AES, founded in the late 40ās would also argue with ASRās silly assertions.
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Daymā¦ that was epic. Extraordinary well worded.
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@bjornar So true. I told Amir privately in a message that until he figures out that much of the testing he is doing is misleading, and needs to be tested under load in the circuit he was working with, he was doing a disservice to the industry. Obviously he didnāt like or want to hear thatā¦
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Amir has been pointing to Tooleās research for years.
Floyd Toole actually participates on ASR Forum by the way.
Sean Olive too.
KEF and Genelec heads of Engineering also.
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@wobblewobble āThe industry doesnāt teach you what is in that video. That is a huge problem. I donāt care how many years you have been in it.ā <---- Amir said it, and itās patently false.
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It is a shame he can act like such a troll at times, especially in the commentary fields. Transparency is something that is much needed in this hobby and some sort of accountability with regards to cost of products and publishing specs. So in that respect someone like that could fill a hole - and I am sure he does some good things. High-end audio is very unique in the respect that so many who do are not practicing the hobby but has got an opinion about it - usually negative.
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I wonder how much time Amir takes to do his measurements? It seems like he is in a rush many times when Iāve wondered over to ASR.
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@wobblewobble if you think this is a good review I am not sure what you would consider a bad one:
Conclusions
"It is a sigh of relief that PS Audio had not managed to reduce the performance of the ICEPower modules. Response and sonic abilities are completely determined by those modules unlike what PS Audio marketing says. The ICEPower module used here has a distinctly lower performance than Hypex modules we have tested in the past. So you are not going to get state-of-the-art performance. For that, you need to go to amplifiers higher in the SINAD graph.
Still, this is a competent, well-built and well-supported amplifier based on proven amplification modules within. Build quality is much higher than DIY or garage shop amplifiers using Hypex modules. $1,500 is not a ton of money given these attributes. For these reasons and good looks of the unit, **I am going to put the PS Audio Stellar S300 amplifier on my recommended list."
Read like despite PS Audioās try to mess it up, its till ok because of the price. Compares it to a DIY module? To me it does sound like he has an axe with just about any high priced thing out there. Donāt like his writing, donāt like his reviews, very narrow minded/focused views on things. Its like reading the beginning of a real review and then it just ends with his not very objective opinion followed by applause from his crowd of his followers.
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Compares it to a DIY module?
Hypex?
Paul is a big fan of Bruno Putzeys and the Kii3 state of the art DSP speakers.
Bruno was co-designer of Hypex before co-creating PuriFi
Kii3 DSP speakers using Hypex amps are not DIY.
Fair enough if you donāt like the style of writing. I can understand his style is not for everyone.
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