@RonP Personally, I feel Amir should be more focused on doing his best to save himself, the rest of us will do just fine without him… Just sayin’
5 Likes
Wow–My “conclusion” was sarcastic. Yes, Amir does suggest that cable mfrs are lying, but I come nowhere near agreeing with him.
2 Likes
Galen
I hope you got that I was being sarcastic.
Amir does state that cables make no difference.
But my ears confirm that he’s missing something very important.
Ron
2 Likes
@RonP I understand Ron… My personal opinion had nothing to do with you.
1 Like
No, not directed at you, sorry. Just the general fact that we already can determine that cables are different in the audio band. How much we hear and when and how is a different question.
This isn’t just cable. His null tester will seem to say anything should be the same in each category. We all know that’s not true.
Best,
Galen
4 Likes
Then you did not watch or pay attention to Paul and Bobs video. They clearly explained why they do it and why you can adjust it with the controls. They talk how the downstream component like everything else on then line get the power from the tip of the sin wave. If you give it a bit of a flat top it gets more power. Or something like that. You clearly did not finish the video.
1 Like
Sorry if I missed it but was there ever a response/rebuttal from PSA regarding the HC outlets/ high impedance that ASR pointed out? All I found was what seemed like those issues were sept under the rug here.
2 Likes
I did watch the video, I just don’t agree with the premise of MultiWave. As I said before, either way, with it on or off the output testing still stands. We can agree to disagree about it.
@psauadiofan No, the output impedance wasn’t measured in the PS Audio rebuttal video for either the LC or HC outputs. They did measure the regulation of one of the LC output zones.
As for the cable LCR discussion, of course they are different. And that is why the volume of the signal has to be matched between the two cables under test, because the cable can affect that. The point of the null test is that the existence of a null position, where the signals cancel out (once they are adjusted to be the same amplitude, phase, polarity reversed, etc.) when summed, is the evidence that the signals are audibly equivalent. Since the signals aren’t digitally modified or processed by the test equipment, the only difference between them should be the cable effects, and that differential signal is what’s being measured and what you hear playing in the video after high gain amplification of the low level signal. Essentially it is hiss from the system that is present if you amplify any equipment that much. The beauty of this method of testing is that it’s not really measuring anything, any undiscovered cable properties or phenomenon should produce an audible difference if they exist, for any reason.
Choose to take this at face value or not, but it’s hard to make a solid argument against null testing as it’s used in many scientific endeavors as a reliable way to investigate if a difference between two things exists.
Interesting. One has to wonder. . . why the silence?
1 Like
Actual output impedance can be difficult to measure, as it varies by frequency, so they basically measured how good the Powerplant regulation is of the zone A LC output in their video. From what we’ve seen it doesn’t appear that those LC zones are anything to really be worried about. They do have lower output impedence than your wall outlet, just around an order of magnitude off the listed specification, but still fine. I would like to see the same regulation test on the HC outputs. Even better would be a more elaborate setup to accurately measure output impedence with a direct amperage measurement, but you can’t have everything.
1 Like
To be more precise, this demonstrates the Power Plant does some of what it claims to accomplish.
And this is even acknowledged in ASR’s video - if you have watched the video carefully.
The ASR video is disputing some of the other claims of the product.
2 Likes
Not (yet?) addressed does not equal swept under the rug. 
I am also curious as to what is going on with ASR’s claim in this regard.
Again you were not paying attention Bob did calculate the impedance from the measurements they took. It would be the same for all of the outputs as the inrush thermistor is only in cicuit at turn on and a rekay bypasses it after that.
1 Like
As ASR acknowledges " [Y]es it is an AC regenerator capable of producing less distorted AC waveform.”
As we know, ASR has other criticisms.
The degree to which these objections matter in the real world remains the issue. Many, such as @NordicDave are blown away by the positive impact of adding a generator to their system. (see, his Just Bought a Regenerator - WOW thread.)
But, regardless, the complaints are interesting.
1 Like
Apologies. It just seems in a thread of over 350 posts and multiple requests to address the issue. . .
I look forward to a detailed response!
2 Likes
Paul already addressed the HC outlets, but there may also be issues with unit under test. We do not know.
2 Likes
Again apologies if I missed it, but where did Paul address this? In the video? In this thread?
2 Likes
Criticisms of some of the product claims - based on objective data ASR has presented.
This is not to say ASR’s objective data should be assumed to be correct but it would be nice for PS Audio to actually close off all the technical queries ASR presented.
4 Likes
@psauadiofan As I said in an earlier post, I think Paul has already addressed the HC outlets. The P12 circuitry under normal operation switches out the current limiter via a relay. And I can accept that. However, as with all used equipment being tested, who knows the history of the unit sent to ASR. It appears that it needs to be inspected for repair if it does not perform this function.
1 Like
I would like to see the HC output measured in the same way they demonstrated the LC output impedance in the video. It’s not the best way to measure output impedance accurately, but it will be relative. Then we can see what’s going on with the in rush current limiter and determine if the device ASR had was faulty or not. That would end the debate regarding this point.
2 Likes