I was surprised when people here posted up to 500hr for the DS to sound its best. I was getting spitty sibilants and was starting to think there maybe a problem with the upgrade kit. One of our more studious colleagues posted that at 500hrs the spit dries up. I am now a believer. I have been running track 9 of the XLO/Reference Recordings system conditioning CD every night & it seems to be doing the business. I’d say I was up to 400hrs and will keep it up another week.
Sibilant reproduction, especially female vocals, is a major concern for me so I hope it continues to dry up.
Another thing is, I didn’t like JRMC 20. I seem to get better sound with 19.0.146 & 18.0.194
rossop, many of us (including me) felt that the DS definitely needed several hundred (yes at least 4-500) hours for things to come into their own. My own opinion is that after that point any changes become very subtle. One assumes you’re using 1.2.1 FW?
Even after burn in I felt I still had a bit of harshness in the female vocal range. Turned out to be my silver ICs that were champs with the PWD Mk.II. They couldn’t cut it with the DS. You using silver ICs by any chance? Not saying that DS and silver don’t mix, but it might be worth an experiment.
Yes I’m on 1,2,1 its great. ICs are old (expensive) Yamamura Churchill. They are copper. The only silver wire I have is the PSA hdmi cable to connect the DAC to the PWT.
I run from my PC/NAS (in one room) via PLCs to my main system where the DS lives. So maybe I have some electrical noise on the line. However, that setup compares very favourably with the same music file played through the PWT. I cant really tell the difference. I definatly feel I have too much treble energy and would like to dial back the highs a bit. Maybe the gang at PSA could create a FW update that does that very thing.
Hmm. Well, you never know - considering in my own system I’ve found the DS outputs to be the most “tweaky” part of this DAC, it might be worth trying something else just to see if perhaps the Churchill’s are not a perfect match.
I’m trying the DS for 30 days. Sounded quite nice after about 2 hours, but after an overnight break-in session has started to change. In the past, with other equipment and tweaks, the pre-break-in time does give an indication of important overall qualities that eventually return, usually in a more refined way.
the qualities were: a lovely midrange, especially on female vocals, large soundstage with lots of depth, very quiet background, seductive coherence, and something I can’t put my finger on and therefore cannot explain (perhaps it is something it doesn’t do). Going from a well regarded (and sounding) tubed unit to the DS, I wasn’t missing the tubes. Very surprising.
Early impression is that this kind of topology is very different from the two off-the-shelf (but still wonderful) chips I’ve owned (saying the obvious). A better mousetrap? Will see how it goes. But 500 hours?
I personally find the multiple hundreds of hours break-in claims difficult to take seriously, both on an objective basis and on the fragility of sensory memory.
But, in any event, you will have the unit long enough for a 500 hour break-in if you keep a source connected to it continually. You may have noted in other threads that engaging the -20dB pad works the output harder.
Also, make sure you have the latest firmware installed. It does appreciably sound the best.
rossop said
Yes I'm on 1,2,1 its great. ICs are old (expensive) Yamamura Churchill. They are copper. The only silver wire I have is the PSA hdmi cable to connect the DAC to the PWT.
I run from my PC/NAS (in one room) via PLCs to my main system where the DS lives. So maybe I have some electrical noise on the line. However, that setup compares very favourably with the same music file played through the PWT. I cant really tell the difference. I definatly feel I have too much treble energy and would like to dial back the highs a bit. Maybe the gang at PSA could create a FW update that does that very thing.
Hi rossop,
I’ve used the PSA hdmi cable from PWT > PWD and found the treble pretty edgy. Try using the SPIF/coax rca or aes input instead with a high-quality digital cable, such as the Shunyata Anaconda Digital IC. Made all the difference in getting the treble energy back into balance on my Wison Sophias, which are ruthlessly revealing.
I can’t comment on the PC/NAS issue as I don’t have that setup.
Medwardo, have you received your new Anaconda digital from Shunyata yet? Received my new version yesterday. If not contact Richard at Shunysta for your free replacement cable.
Hi rossop,
I’ve used the PSA hdmi cable from PWT > PWD and found the treble pretty edgy. Try using the SPIF/coax rca or aes input instead with a high-quality digital cable, such as the Shunyata Anaconda Digital IC. Made all the difference in getting the treble energy back into balance on my Wison Sophias, which are ruthlessly revealing.
I can’t comment on the PC/NAS issue as I don’t have that setup.
Best,
m
Thanks m.... for one reason or another I am not as active as I would like so it takes a while to do things. Basically, I took out the PWD and replaced it with the DS upgrade kit. Right from the start I was getting spitty sibilants. Very annoying, especially on my favourite female vocals. First I tried different versions of JRMC. This made a difference but was more of a placebo thing. There were other things I tried but they were no good. I was considering sending the DS to the distributor here in Australia to have a listen.
Long story short: I use a Herron VTSP-3A preamp which has six 6922 tubes. Two in each stage. In the output stage I had put two expensive NOS Telefunken tubes from the '60s. I took out all the tubes and put in six Elecrto Harmonix tubes I had lying around. As of yet I am not saying this has fixed the issues I was having. I will have a good listen before I make up my mind.
Yup 4-500 and the SQ is like the stock market along the way. Given that the PWD upgrade to MKII also took many hours I suspect it is the digital board as much as the output section.
I agree with Tony that silver along with the depth of reveal of the DS can be a bit much.
I suggest letting it go the full 500hrs or so and see if you also hear the difference[s] and then begin playing with different cables, especially between the DS-pre-amp[s]. Keeping in mind that if the original recording was edgy then it may be less veiled with the DS than the PWD.
Yup 4-500 and the SQ is like the stock market along the way. Given that the PWD upgrade to MKII also took many hours I suspect it is the digital board as much as the output section.
I agree with Tony that silver along with the depth of reveal of the DS can be a bit much.
I suggest letting it go the full 500hrs or so and see if you also hear the difference[s] and then begin playing with different cables, especially between the DS-pre-amp[s]. Keeping in mind that if the original recording was edgy then it may be less veiled with the DS than the PWD.
I agree with you, Gordon. I have 125 hours on my new DS and it is going much like the PWD and the MKII upgrade burn in went. It also reminds me of digital cable break in. It's painfully long and disconcerting if you have a highly resolving system. It's tough unless you are as far along the Buhdda's path as Gordon is. ;-)
He just sits back and remarks from time to time, “Oh, well that’s interesting.”
I break in so much equipment that I’ve gotten used to the digital curse. At times, I hear differences within a single listening session until the gear finally settles or “cures” as I like to say. May as well lay back and enjoy the ride.
vhiner1 said
I agree with you, Gordon. I have 125 hours on my new DS and it is going much like the PWD and the MKII upgrade burn in went. It also reminds me of digital cable break in. It's painfully long and disconcerting if you have a highly resolving system. It's tough unless you are as far along the Buhdda's path as Gordon is. ;-)
He just sits back and remarks from time to time, “Oh, well that’s interesting.”
I break in so much equipment that I’ve gotten used to the digital curse. At times, I hear differences within a single listening session until the gear finally settles or “cures” as I like to say. May as well lay back and enjoy the ride.
Hi vhiner1. Good you took the DS plunge. You’ll find it rewarding.
How is your new Anaconda digital cable going on break in? Weeks of up/down to follow? I hope to install mine tonight or tomorrow, back permitting.
Hi vhiner1. Good you took the DS plunge. You’ll find it rewarding.
How is your new Anaconda digital cable going on break in? Weeks of up/down to follow? I hope to install mine tonight or tomorrow, back permitting.
Goid to see you in these pages again.
Best,
Odd
Backatcha, Odd! I'm just about there with the new Anaconda. You and I experience break in the same way, so you know what to expect. Listen to it the first couple of days, then just ride the roller coaster until you reach nirvana. LOL. The bass and coherence across the spectrum will blow your mind....what with all those Ultra SS's you use. You'll hear it in all its glory!
Since you have a NAS, and I assume, the Bridge, you may want to consider installing MinimServer on the NAS. Turn the pre-amp pr the power amp off, and play the 9th track 24/7. That means you will be “there” in two weeks
Thanks peeps…I fell a bit better about the whole thing now. I ran the DS direct thru two power amps just to see if there was a difference. It was very, very clear but still the sibilants are still hissy. I will run the XLO/Reference Recordings burn in track for a while longer.
I never noticed this when I went PWD>Mk11. I hope it goes away but I am not that confident
@gordon I already find the sound very "relaxing." I'm sure your beta influence is at work in there somewhere!
@rossup. I am perplexed by the persistence in sibilance you describe after 400 hours, especially if it is consistent. ( I am certain you are hearing what you hear, btw.) Nonetheless, my experience is that the sibilance, harshness, thinness, occasional muddiness, and flatness…come in and out of the picture. It’s kind of like watching a movie while the projector operator randomly adjusts the focus.
Here’s something else to consider; not one of the many reviews that have been written about the DS mention sibilance beyond the break in period. None of these folks have remotely similar systems and, if there has been a nit to pick, it has been that the DS is a bit laid back or “soft around the edges” to some people’s ears. That sounds like the opposite of sibilance. One thing that all of these writers do have in common is a brand new unit. If the sibilance persists beyond 600 hours it might be worth having your dealer double check the installation or compare your unit with a demo model at the dealer. Just something to consider.
@gordon I already find the sound very “relaxing.” I’m sure your beta influence is at work in there somewhere!
@rossup. I am perplexed by the persistence in sibilance you describe after 400 hours, especially if it is consistent. ( I am certain you are hearing what you hear, btw.) Nonetheless, my experience is that the sibilance, harshness, thinness, occasional muddiness, and flatness…come in and out of the picture. It’s kind of like watching a movie while the projector operator randomly adjusts the focus.
Here’s something else to consider; not one of the many reviews that have been written about the DS mention sibilance beyond the break in period. None of these folks have remotely similar systems and, if there has been a nit to pick, it has been that the DS is a bit laid back or “soft around the edges” to some people’s ears. That sounds like the opposite of sibilance. One thing that all of these writers do have in common is a brand new unit. If the sibilance persists beyond 600 hours it might be worth having your dealer double check the installation or compare your unit with a demo model at the dealer. Just something to consider.
I think you may be correct about this. I have found, with new components, you get an idea of the overall character right from the start. That’s why I said it would surprise if it clears up. I have also noted a certain vagueness or “soft around the edges” to the sound.
Here’s the plan. I spoke to Mike from Magenta Audio. He is the dealer in Australia. I will run it for a couple of weeks 24hrs a day. I have a listen in the morning and run the burn in disc the rest of the time. PWT & DAC (in low gain) are the only things running all day. Then we will see. Mike said he might send me some attenuated cables(whatever they are). I have tried other ICs but no good. Then, if necessary, I will send it back to him for a listen. Not a happy camper
Yahoo. Well it’s always a fun ride!!! Hang in and so good to hear from you.
