'I Like the Music, But Not the Musician'

James Brown is the one that causes me the most conflict. His transgressions, repulsive as they are are almost always compartmentalized for me whenever I see his performances. I don’t “listen” to him as a matter of course but if I stumble on some performance where he is undeniably (to me at least) showing up absolutely everyone in showbiz then I can’t help but admire the effort and work ethic. The TAMI Show leaves me speechless when seen in its entirety, he is just on another planet.

I can not listen to Taylor Swift.

I’m sure there would be a lot of music I would stray from if I knew more about the artist. Maybe its better I don’t know and just enjoy the art for what it is. After all no one is perfect.

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What about this scenario: You love an artist’s work and find out they are gay. You personally, or your religion/country/state considers that immoral/criminal. How does that fit into this Judgement-Fest?

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What has she done of which you disapprove? You dislike her philanthropic efforts?

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I don’t know that this is a thread to do that, nor is it one that’s saying “don’t listen to this person. They kicked their dog.”

Art doesn’t exist out of thin air. Real people, with pain, and bad judgment, and questionable behavior created it. Doesn’t make the art any less interesting. Makes it more so.

But yeah, some artists can be horrible, horrible people, and I will admit that it might play into whether I want to listen to them or see them live. I have a whole slew of old Cosby albums. No real interest in firing them up these days, and they certainly would seem less funny now that we know about his behavior.

Ted Nugent? The fact that I disagree with his politics is just a happy complement to the fact that I can’t stand his music. :slightly_smiling_face:

A friend of mine was a big KISS fan, and was going to see them last year. Asked me if I wanted to go. Not a KISS fan myself, and the scene would have been amusing, but I’ll be honest: the things I’ve learned about Gene Simmons played in my decision to take a hard pass on the show.

On the other hand… if a person’s really great, will it make me like their music if I didn’t already? Doubt it. I know little about Taylor Swift’s philanthropy, and it’s wonderful if she’s generous. But her philanthropy isn’t gonna make me like her music.

I guess I don’t necessarily let it color my opinion of the art, as I don’t want to judge. Everyone has their demons, and it’s often a matter of degrees. But I also don’t live under a rock and put my fingers in my ears if I learn something bad about an artist I like. If I’m reading their biography, I don’t stop when I hit the unsavory content.

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@badbeef: Thanks for the thoughtful post. I will try to respond point by point.

Artists are public figures. When they beat their spouses, take drugs, get arrested, join crazy political movements, rip off their band mates, etc., it often goes public in one way or another. While I agree that it would be nice to be able tune out all that noise and just enjoy their music, sometimes you cannot help hearing something about an artist that sticks with you in a negative way (e.g., Elk’s visceral reaction to anyone saying anything positive about Ginger Baker’s music right after he died).

So Roger Waters and Brian Eno can boycott the State of Israel in an overtly public manner, including trying to get other artists to cancel performances there, but we should not speak out publicly if we disagree with them?

So do I, but doing so is not mutually exclusive to being conscious of an artist’s bad behavior.

Maybe not; I think it depends where one stands. If someone cared passionately about, say, preventing domestic violence, he/she might have an issue with Miles Davis (as but one example).

It was just a figure of speech, but since you asked, I would say, ‘I hope not.’

Everyone has to make their own decisions about their customer/clients/patients. I do not believe in guilt by association, so I have no problem with Gus working for Roger. But if Roger asked me to do work for him, I would decline.

Run like hell. :wink:

No doubt. Witness the white power music phenomenon.

I hadn’t heard that one before … that’s a good one.

I do not take any joy or comfort in learning that a musician whose art I appreciate is an asshat. But that does not mean that I am going to ignore it, either.

Yes, they are. And we are entitled to respond. For example, Brian Eno tried to get Nick Cave to cancel a Bad Seeds performance in Israel. Read Nick Cave’s open letter in response to Eno.

Not sure what you mean by ‘took the side.’ My overarching point at the time was that Ginger Baker had just died and that people should be permitted to remember his music fondly in the ‘RIP Ginger’ tribute thread without constant posts about Ginger’s personal failings, all of which I acknowledged as serious.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. :rofl:

Seriously, this thread has already generated several very interesting posts, including yours. So why worry about any supposed motivations on my part for starting the thread?

The stated premise of this thread is how we deal with the potential dilemma of liking music by a musician whom we find distasteful personally. Apparently, you deal with it by not worrying about it. At some level, I am envious of your ability to compartmentalize in that way.

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Damn you, dude - you made this interesting :see_no_evil:

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Is Roger Water’s prejudiced against Jews or does he strongly disagree with the politics of the State of Israel? I believe there is a distinction between the two and disagreeing with the politics should not brand one as being anti-semitic.

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A creative reinterpretation of the thread. :slight_smile:
(I have no interest in revisiting the previous discussion itself - anyone who cares to can review the thread.)

I take it six months is a sufficient mourning period? hide

One needs to remember once someone posts publicly on any music topic the entire community “should be permitted” to post whatever response they would like - whether in agreement, disagreement, or anything else related.

For me, the most fascinating real-world conflicts are attempting to deal with exceedingly thorny issues such as whether one should take advantage of the data gathered as part of Nazi human experimentation.

An understandable work-around. But does this mean he is insufficiently repugnant to not listen to his music, it is only a problem if you pay him? Does it matter if he is funding efforts you object to or if he merely is speaking in support? (That is, does it matter if he is in essence using your money or not?)

Can an artist be sufficiently abhorrent you will not listen to his music, period regardless of whether you pay him? How do you decide where to draw this line?

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@Sohail I was just about to post a similar observation regarding Roger Waters. I understand he is trying to support the Palestinians who have received a raw deal from Israel.

EDIT: I’m also aware of the feud between Roger and Thom Yorke of Radiohead regarding concerts in Israel. Big fan of both artists and understand this as a divisive subject.

Also, a general observation. Extremely bright people and creative geniuses tend to be a bit “difficult” and unique. Don’t expect a perfect package.

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One thing I will say about Taylor - a handmade lyric sheet of hers was in the Grammy Museum in L.A. Next to one of Dylan’s. Anyhow - she dotted some of her i’s with lil’ hearts. Just sayin’. :stuck_out_tongue:

And, BTW, what’s wrong with Van Morrison and Morrissey? Have they committed some atrocities that won’t allow enjoyment of their fine music?

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@bootzilla One final caution regarding your statement above. Make sure you can trust the source of this information.

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And… should we hate or pity Charlie Parker for being a heroin addict? Just saying.

EDIT: Fun and exciting thread for sure. Thanks Boot.

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That gets into the whole issue of, “Is this hurting only them, or does what they do hurt others?” If they were just Joe Schmo, would we care? Now that a bunch of people decided their art is worthwhile, do they now have some sort of Responsibility they didn’t have as an unknown individual? What if you agree with what they say, and think they are expressing something important that needs to be said, and others find that same thing hateful?

There’s no end to the sub categories in this silly pursuit.

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Great thread!

I guess I’m somehow ignorant or superficial. It seems the only thing I care about a bit regarding out of music behavior of an artist is arrogance towards his audience. To take an extreme…I guess I could even enjoy music of a right-wing orientated artist, ignoring his lyrics.I enjoy the music of Mystikal, although he’s probably still in jail for crimes I would never tolerate.

Music as an art for me is totally separated from the rest of the world. For sure it will have a limit somewhere, but I didn’t experience it yet. I don’t say my way of dealing with this is good, but it’s similar with any kind of art. Some don’t listen to Wagner for more or less good reasons…I couldn’t pass on it for non musical reasons.

Yes on both counts IMO.

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Regarding Morrissey, my little brother once asked me how I could listen to him with a straight face as his lyrics were some times so pompous and silly. It was then that I realized I had never really allowed the words to connect with me. I was enjoying the sound while ignoring the content. I have found I do that with other artists as well.

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I love Morrissey simply because he stated animals are better than humans or something to that effect. Wisdom in my warped book.

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I am not in the least surprised Taylor Swift dots her i’s with little hearts.

She is quite a character. By all accounts always polite and actually is the public persona we see. It is fun to have people like this around.

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I have been told by a number of people who feel strongly on the subject there is no distinction between prejudice against Jews and disagreeing with Israel’s state acts.

(I have no opinion regarding Mr. Waters. I barely know who he is.)