Agreed. But just because one can post whatever and wherever one likes does not mean one should do so. For example, I saw a Brian Eno album cover pop up yesterday in the “What Are You Spinning Now?” thread. Yes, I could have posted right then and there in the album covers thread regarding my issues with Eno’s support of the BDS movement, but I thought better of it and decided to create this thread so as not to sidetrack a music appreciation thread. And yes, you were technically within your rights to badmouth Ginger Baker in the ‘RIP Ginger’ tribute thread mere hours after he died; whether that was a cool thing to do is something readers can decide for themselves.
All fair questions. I would respond by saying that I got into Pink Floyd at a young age many years before I knew what an asshat Roger Waters was – and still is. Let’s say I started listening to Floyd in 1977 (the same year of the infamous incident in which Waters spat in a fan’s face during a Pink Floyd concert in Montreal; in my defense, I did not learn about this incident until many years later).
By the time I realized the extent to which I disagree with virtually everything Waters says, Floyd’s music was already a part of my (occasionally misspent) youth and young adulthood. I was not prepared to burn my Pink Floyd album collection, however, and I still appreciate the talents of the other band members. The way I deal with the situation is by trying to avoid spending money on Pink Floyd products while still listening to my existing albums and also by listening to freely traded unofficial Pink Floyd concert recordings. Does my refusal thus far to completely boycott the band make me a hypocrite? I hope not, but if so, then guilty as charged, I suppose.
The most abhorrent artist whose music I ever listened to for more than a minute – many years ago – was probably GG Allin. By any measure, GG was an evil, deviant, repulsive reprobate. But that was the whole point – it was ‘how far over the line can GG push things and get away with it?’ A couple of friends and I had good laughs over GG and his music – but we were laughing at GG, not with him. Today, I can say confidently that I would not listen to GG.
Where to draw the line? I don’t know other than to say that I will not listen to white power music, or violate rap music.
May I request that we get away from Israel and get back to flogging a ‘well’ deserving person. In other words stay away from nations and even concepts. This tread is going quite well. Keep on keeping on.
James Brown a tough call for me. I will always like him and ignore the stories. Another FBI target, I will never know what to believe, except for the beat (not a pun).
I’ve seen him a few times (been years tho), and each time he got less and less enjoyable. I don’t need a performer to fawn over the audience, but you could tell he barely tolerated being there. Like the audience was a major annoyance and an inconvenience. Love his music and his groove, but the shows became such a turn-off because of his attitude. Just felt like it was a sign he wasn’t particularly great to be around in other facets of his life.
There’s a biography out there that gets into all of it, naturally.
Interestingly, searching for that, I came up with a Chicago Tribune article that echoes sentiments similar to this thread. (The VM bio is mentioned front and center.)
I heard she picked out some of her more hard up fans who were struggling at the beginning of the corona shutdown, and transferred $3000 to each of them or something like that.
I’d never really paid her any attention, but that made me smile and I’m quite interested in her activities now.
There was a period of time when the worst thing I could do is go see a performer/band that I adored. I would usually see whomever it was at First Avenue, a great venue to see live acts. The problem would be that far too many of the favored acts took pretension to new lows. Acting like they were really treating us to a special event just by being there. The worst of the worst acts for me was the Pixies, right in their prime. Frank Black, or Black Francis was absolutely intolerable. I can’t even listen to the Pixies anymore after that. Same thing with David Byrne, I cannot tolerate him even a tiny bit. I still listen to the Talking Heads after a long break, and the Eno/Byrne album My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts I’ll never tire of. But David, I have had way too much of you.
This is one of the reasons I never allowed myself to go see David Bowie live. He was on a pedestal I did not want to risk him falling off of. He did so many questionable things but I still adore him and his music.
Then there is Prince, a giant can of worms. I have seen him live so many times and wish I could again.
But not Roger Waters. Ish. Bah.
I’m not even thinking kindly of John Lennon or Paul McCartney these days. All they did was copy XTC anyway.
This was even hard to tolerate with Miles in the 80s. Fortunately there were also other interesting musicians on stage…and Miles didn’t play much anyway. Genius anyway.
Great thread, pretty obvious a lot of you like to learn a lot about the people behind the music. I get that, but personally have not ventured too far down that rabbit hole. I prefer to enjoy the music and not peek behind the curtain. You know where that leads … Actually, I’m of the opinion that the demons some musicians (actually, all artists) live with is the source of their creative power. I know that’s nothing new, but we need a certain level of tolerance for their flaws. of course there are those that just like to tell you, over and over, what their flaws are …
Speaking of which … the two musicians that stand out for me, and have been mentioned, are Ted Nugent and Gene Simmons. I actually don’t like the music of either, probably partly because of their behaviors, but feel compelled to bash them! Ted has long been a loud mouth showboater, I’m a native Michigander and recall hearing Detroit radio spots in the 70’s where he was boasting he was the next Jimi Hendrix and actually was better than Jimi (nope). In later years he took a hard stance on hunting as a God given right of life and you should kill as many animals as you can, “Wack ‘em and Stack ‘em,” was his mantra (I like the outdoors but don’t hunt, hence my distaste). He eventually moved from Michigan to the more friendly (to him) Texas. Good riddance many of us said. Lately he was protesting (from afar) the Michigan DNR regulations on deer feeding/baiting to limit the spread of Chronic Wasting Disease (a contagious disease that kills deer, eerily similar in effect to COVID-19). The man (I’m being nice) doesn’t even live here anymore, just stay out of it. His recent ventures into politics just piled on the list. I’ll stop there.
Gene Simmons is another one with a strong opinion of themselves. I kind of liked Kiss when it came out, more raucous than what I normally like, but hey, they had a song titled “Detroit, Rock City”! I didn’t pay much attention to him until several years ago while listening to Fresh Air with Terri Gross, he was the guest, actually the guest from Hell. More to the point, he was an incredible dick! His aim was to upset Terri in any way possible and be as smug as he could about it. Then there was the reality show about him, “Family Jewels” or something to that effect. Just drove home the incredible narcissism he has (remind you of anyone?).
I’ll leave it at that, we are after all, entitled to our opinions!
I have been unable to listen to Ryan Adams since the reports of his behaviour. I used to really love his music, it’s not changed, but now I can’t help but wonder where some of the sentiments really come from.
It would appear that a lot of very successful people are gigantic asshats, in sport, business and entertainment. There are a lot of nice folks too.
Of course being famous can have a devastating effect on people’s mental health, which may cause things to spiral out of control.
Miles Davis is one of the greatest Jazz musicians to ever blow a horn. His violent side, especially the punishment he meted out against Francis Taylor when he was drunk or high, could never be considered acceptable by any standard and certainly not by the standard of today.
Would I have listened to Miles at the drop of a hat when he was alive, absolutely. Would I have wanted to associate with him personally, I don’t think so.
Ron - get that you’re kidding. But here’s the thing that I feel about this thread in very general terms. What is the thrill with Judgement? Judge Not, Lest…whatever.
I appreciate that the vast majority here live in Glass Houses and are nonetheless utterly unconcerned with Stones, as they are Without Sin, as it were.
Why the blasé freedom to judge others? Fame? Money?
Mark
As often is the case, you and I agree. Like bruthuzuvuhnuthuhmuthuh.
But on the other hand—a freakin Miura SV?? An objet d’art. A car with eyelashes!!!
After that, if Miles had called me and said “bring your Super 400 and play in my band” I’m not sure I could do it after the Miura.
The jazz list, just for starters: Charles Mingus, Max Roach, Miles Davis, Keith Jarrett, Marsalis brothers. Mingus could get violent, Roach too, Davis too, and Davis and Jarrett just garden variety divas, and then the Marsalis brothers… where to begin with their vision of what jazz is and isn’t.
My non-jazz list starts with the git Morrissey and goes downhill from there.
And, as much as it pains me to say it, the late Mark E. Smith of The Fall. Just google his name and Mumford & Sons if you want to get a feel for him.
Ted has long been a loud mouth showboater, I’m a native Michigander and recall hearing Detroit radio spots in the 70’s where he was boasting he was the next Jimi Hendrix and actually was better than Jimi (nope). In later years he took a hard stance on hunting as a God given right of life and you should kill as many animals as you can, “Wack ‘em and Stack ‘em,” was his mantra (I like the outdoors but don’t hunt, hence my distaste). He eventually moved from Michigan to the more friendly (to him) Texas. Good riddance many of us said. Lately he was protesting (from afar) the Michigan DNR regulations on deer feeding/baiting to limit the spread of Chronic Wasting Disease (a contagious disease that kills deer, eerily similar in effect to COVID-19). The man (I’m being nice) doesn’t even live here anymore, just stay out of it. His recent ventures into politics just piled on the list. I’ll stop there.
