…after going thru several speakers since I consigned my Majestic 745s a year or so ago to The Music Room (TMR).. The problem with the SLs was that my room was too…cluttered, crowded…for these 39-inch-wide speakers and was essentially unsafe.. While they were consigned to TMR, I eliminated the source of the clutter at the front of the room, so back came the SLs!!!
They arrived yesterday, three of us got them into the room, and I got them running.. I adjusted the tonality down 3dB for bass and up somewhat for treble (compared with the settings I had used previously), and they sound FABULOUS.. I’ve found, over the 65-or-so years I’ve been an audiofool, that I love (1) full-height soundstages which means tall speakers which means line-source, not point-source, speakers, (2) very high resolution of the music, (3) the spaciousness of dipoles, and (4) that I don’t want subwoofers which have NEVER sounded exactly right with any of my speakers.. Large, full-height e’stats fill those requirements.. After I decided to have the M745s returned to me, I found a used pair of Pass XA60.8s, the same-model amps I had used previously, and they sound excellent driving the SLs.
I have more 2 more pairs of poweramps to try, Schiit Tyrs and PS Audio M1200s, plus probably the AGD class-D Duets, but whatever I end up with will produce less heat than the Passes.
You might also want to check out Sanders Sound Systems Magtech amplifiers. I use (2) stereo versions of the Magtech with Sanders Model 10e ‘stats and they sound great. They are especially good at dealing with the very low impedance at higher frequencies encountered with ‘stats since they’re a capacitive load.
Congrats on getting your speakers back!
If it was me, I’d keep the Class A monoblocks and not even mess around with anything else. But you enjoy the experimenting (rightfully so). I know I have done my fair share of experimenting, and still put tube gear in from time to time.
There is a certain magic to Class A amps. My very first tubed amp was Class A and while it was a decided PITA to bias it was also unmatched in some ways compared to any I’ve had since. While the ML Aerius that it was used together with was a hybrid ESL you were still able to hear how well they complimented each other.
I’m interested in the AGD Duets as well. I run Martin Logan Summit’s and would appreciate to hear how they work with your SLs. My amp short list is similar to yours, Pass XA60.8s and X260.8s along with the AGD Duets.
Unfortunately there isn’t an AGD dealer near me. Hopefully they will be at the Florida International Audio Expo in Tampa next month.
I’m interested in the AGD Duets as well. I run Martin Logan Summit’s and would appreciate to hear how they work with your SLs. My amp short list is similar to yours, Pass XA60.8s and X260.8s along with the AGD Duets. …”
These two Passes are two of the three best-sounding amps I found for my SLs last year.. The ‘260s were the first that sounded great, the PS Audio BHK600s were better yet, and the ‘60s were the best.
This afternoon, I connected my Schiit Tyrs to the SLs and surprised myself with the HIGHLY musical sounds they all produced.. I may never get to the Duets!
" [jim-kaporch]: I’m interested in the AGD Duets as well. I run Martin Logan Summit’s and would appreciate to hear how they work with your SLs. My amp short list is similar to yours, Pass XA60.8s and X260.8s along with the AGD Duets."
To repeat a bit, during my first period of having the SLs, the first monoamp that I classified as ‘very good and good enough’ was a pair of Pass x260.8s.. Then I found and bought an affordable, used pair of PSA BHK600s that sounded a tad smoother but still highly resolving but which ran even hotter than the '260s, and then I discovered the far-more-powerful-than-indicated-by-its-60Watt-rating Pass XA60.8s.. They sounded better than even the BHKs, and they became my keepers…until I sent the SLs to TheMusicRoom.
After I asked TMR to return my SLs, I bought another used pair of XA60.8s, and my goodbuddyfelloaudiofool says the these '60s are the best-sounding amps he’s ever heard, and he may be absolutely correct.
FWIW, the X260.8 and XA60.8 are built in identical chassis and draw the same power (370Watts) at idle; I’m sure the '260s draw much more power at high outputs.
The very-cool-running Schiit Tyrs are still sounding excellent with the SLs, further expanding the list of candidates.
I’m still arguing with myself about hot-running amps, so we’ll just have to see what happens.
I like the XA60.8s very much. Probably the best sounding amps I’ve ever heard. But I could do without the heat, size, and weight. I’d like to reduce my system to fewer components. Right now the plan is to retain my Martin Logan Summits and replace my amp, preamp and DAC with AGD Duets and a Playback Designs MPD-8.
I’m going to reach out to Alberto at AGD to see if he will be exhibiting at the Florida International Audio Expo in Tampa next month. That is close by and I could give them a listen. Certainly not Ideal but should be enough to decide on an in-home demo.
I currently run a Mark Levinson No. 23.5. The XA60.8s are on my short list which I’ve heard in my system but I’m trying to avoid replacing one 100 lb amp with two larger 100 lb ones. Plus I could do without the extra heat here in central Florida.
Still have and LOVE my Sound Lab Majestic 745s.. Have been evaluating poweramps lately after deciding that the Pass XA60.8s are JUST TOO HOT.. Have rejected the AGD Duets for sounding a little harsh with trumpets and especially massed violins; ‘Mr. AGD’ tells me I’m the only purchaser to have returned a pair of Duets, just as Mr. Sanders told me I was the only customer ever to return a pair of his 10E electrostatic speakers.
Have had Linear Tube Audio’s Century monoamps for a few weeks…
These are new Berning ZOTL-type 110-watt monoamps designed by David Berning and LTA and patterned after Berning’s Quadrature Z model of the mid-2000s.. These sound simply excellent with my SLs and consume only 100 Watts each at idle.. My Pass XA60.8s are for sale.
Am now choosing a very-low-power-draw amp for summer season–June-July-August–here in the Sonoran Desert; I’m hoping my slightly improved PSA M1200s wll win that contest.. Also have Schiit Tyrs and Atma-Sphere Class Ds for candidates.
Seems like you are well versed in dipole speakers and likely their setup. I’m trying my first set now (Maggie 1.7i) and I am having a hard time with setup. Any recommendations on where I should look for info on setting them up as opposed to traditional point source speakers? I know I need them farther into the room and that they are more directional, but I can’t seem to get it right at all. The guide I followed first said to put the tweeters on the outside and toe them so they cross ~6” in front of your face but I did not get much of a phantom center and it did not sound right to my in my room. I’m feeling like I need a guide more specific to these speakers and most of what I come across is for traditional speakers with only a brief mention of dipole being different. Any tips or places I should look for help?
I have Magnepan LRS+ in my 2nd system. In my setup, tweeters are also on the outside versus inside. The speakers are far apart and I have them aimed about 4’ behind my listening position, not in front. Ever so slight changes to toe-in can have a dramatic effect on soundstaging. My suggestion is to adjust toe-in so that they are aimed behind your listening position.
Am expecting my third pair of Pass XA60.8 monoamps tomorrow the 1st.(1) They’re still my fave on my SoundLabs (hereafter ‘SLs’).
To recap the amps I’ve rejected recently in my search for cool-running poweramps, (A) the AGD Duets sounded slightly edgy/harsh with hard-blown trumpets and massed violins; (B, C, and D) the AudiobyVanAlstine M750s, Linear Tube Audio Centurys, and Schiit Tyrs were excellent at resolution, soundstaging, spaciousness, etc., but had that boring tonal balance(2); and (D) the PrimaLuna Evo 300 stereo amp bored me while also sounding slightly ‘soft’.
We have hauled my Eminent Technology LFT-8C speakers and PSA M1200 hybrid/class-D monoamps to the last-two meetings of the Arizona Audio Video Club.. I and many other people were pleasantly surprised at how good that combination sounded in the two huge rooms they played in, so tonite I tried them on the SLs.. WOW was I surprised at how EXCELLENT they sounded…high in resolution, spaciousness, intrumental placement, AND a slightly warm and rich tonal balance(3).. These are absolutely keepers and MIGHT even become my main amps for the SLs!!! … and they were right here all this time!!!
(1) I went stupid and sold my 2nd pair a couple weeks go…pls don’t ask why.
(2) I require a slightly warm, rich (but not thick)-sounding tonal balance from my poweramps, and until I heard the M1200s, only the Passes amps have that.. If amps are otherwise excellent sounding but have a ‘neutral’ tonal balance, they bore me and I stop listening.
(3) I can pat myself on the back (slightly) for contributing in small ways to their excellent sound, since I replaced the very good RelCap ‘propylene-and-tinfoil frontend-output-coupling caps with SoniCap Teflon-alloy-and-tinfoil Platinum capacitors, replaced the thumb-and-finger-tightened speaker-binding posts with those by CARDAS, and added a couple good-sized pieces of SoundCoat-the-Thicker to the inside of the ringing cover and outside of the bottoms.
Sigh. When M1200’s set the high mark, you aren’t even close to the gear that really performs. No offense meant, for the price yadda yada yada. It would be fun to sit you in a chair and show you what a Gryphon Diablo 300 or 333 sounds like. You can unhear it with time. It is not a subtle difference. No sir. Anyway….
‘Sigh’ indeed.. I suppose it’s unlikely that someone who has such strong biases about equipment would actually read much, but the M1200s are now my summer-weather and overall-backup poweramps, NOT the best I’ve ever heard nor my faves at anything but winning the excellent-sound-with-LOW-heat-output contest.. The Pass XA60.8s are still the best-ever amps I’ve heard with my SoundLabs, and that’s why another pair is arriving today.
$25,000 for an amp? That might be affordable to you, but it isn’t to me.. Most of us simply can’t afford such stuff.. The excellent-sounding $9K-per-used-pair Pass XA60.8s are plenty expensive enough for me.
The 333 was $24.5k, but has since gone up to $27.8k. I am not sure if there is a tariff charge on top of the $27.8k or if that is the adjusted price including tariffs, but before tax.
I do understand the concern with heat. Temperatures near and above 100 degrees every day for 3 months straight is not something that most of us have experienced.
I have also become an audiophile that loves class A amplification, especially in comparison to my previous class D amplification.
