It's almost ALL audiophile

Music
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As I explore new music, of course I’m always on the lookout for recommendations of recordings that fit into the category of “audiophile.” This is actually new for me - in the past, my search was for creative, innovative, historically interesting, technical and interpretive talent, unique approaches to sound color and rhythm, etc., and if I happened upon something that had those kinds of things PLUS being a well-engineered recording, all the better. But now that I’m focusing more on recording quality itself, I’m noticing two surprises: first, something I’ve mentioned here before, that I had always thought most audiophiles didn’t really care so much about musicianship - that all they really wanted is to focus on the quality of the RECORDING itself. I have been delighted to find that most people who are really into the audio quality are also really into the music itself as well. In other words, I would not have been surprised if all the suggestions around here had been things I didn’t really care for musically, but I’d listen to just to hear some audiophile-centric characteristics. I’m excited to find this not the case at all.

But the second thing is what I’m writing about here: when I first got started in listening, back in the 1970s, there was definitely a class of recordings that fell clearly under “audiophile” - certain classical recordings, rock groups like Pink Floyd and Steely Dan and a handful of more popular music that almost “lucked in” to being a great work of audio art. In those days, something that really sang to audiophile ears was more the exception than the rule. But I am noticing nowadays that the reverse seems to be true - that almost anything I listen to, as long as it is a serious effort, has a lot of what I look for in a good recording - realistic soundstage, good frequency response, clear capture of instruments / voice, presence, dynamic range (depending on genre), and so on.

My guesses as to why this is true - that more often than not I’m impressed with audio quality might be a) better equipment at more affordable prices, b) better training, c) more people (more to choose from), and d) prevalence - the culture is just getting more accustomed to better quality in everything.

I think this is good news because I am discovering how my time and financial investments in high-end audio are paying off more and more often - sure, no matter WHAT quality of recording, I get to hear it better, but I’m also finding that I don’t need to search as hard to find stuff that knocks my ears off.

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Streaming has been a godsend for me in finding really great sound. In the old days it was the few reviews I found, that rarely even mentioned sound quality, and radio. Radio was always a sonic wasteland around here due to lack of quality stations. That and the old problem of having no control over what they were playing. Can’t tell you how many blind purchases I made over the years based only on the artist or the cover art. That method leads to a terrible success rate.

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Yeah, where I grew into listening, the only way I could get decent music was to be near a college radio station - it was still hit and miss, but at least it was interesting. I actually worked in public radio for several years and tried to push the envelope on what was played. As for buying recordings with a higher quality of audio, it was word of mouth, something like “WHAT? You’ve never heard Supertramp’s Crime of the Century album? Where have you been?” A big part of my college experience was that anyone who was cool had to have a KILLER stereo. I remember when a new Chicago or Talking Heads album would come out, I’d buy it and my friends would come to my room and sit there and intently listen to it. These days it’s been replaced by gaming systems I guess.

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Those were the days, I remember it like it was yesterday.

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You make some interesting observations Jon. My experience over the last 10 years or so has been similar. However, I think it’s a two-edged sword. Let me explain. Over this period I’ve probably discovered more great music than over my entire ‘audiophile’ life. I’m not completely sure why but I think one reason is as you describe, that is, learning more, about music, musicians, recording quality, the list could go on. A major source of new (to me) music has been a ‘radio’ station here in Aus, ABC Classic. I put radio in single quotes because it’s expanded beyond traditional radio broadcasting. Originally called ABC Classic FM, they’ve had to re-invent themselves with the rising popularity of other platforms such as the internet, streaming and mobile apps with ‘on demand’ access to programs. They’ve also had to expand their definition of what is ‘classical’ music. These days more neo-classical genres like the soundtracks to movie, television (including streaming services) and video games. I think this last aspect has hugely broadened my musical appreciation. There are some great contemporary composers around today writing scores for the ‘video’ we like to consume.

The other edge to the sword? Well, I’ve being maintaining a ‘want list’ for a few years now and I’m currently running at about 339 albums! I estimate that at current prices, I’m looking at around $10,000 worth! I’m beginning to think I’ll never reach the end of the list. Does it matter? Probably not. As long as I’m enjoying the journey.

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So much music/So little time.

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Great post. I like how you describe the value of an outlet - whether “radio” or otherwise - and how it can really expand one’s knowledge and experience around music. The problem here in the USA is the whole world of money. Almost without exception, to hear it publicly, it has to be able to make money. Of course, since the music industry is comprised of people who have to eat, it’s always been the case that money is a necessary thing, but it seemed for a long time that money came second - that the quality of the music dictated whether a musician could survive. But over the course of the 20th/21st Centuries, some things changed, to where the tail began to wag the dog - where the more money something makes, the more it is perceived as better in quality, to the point the musical talent doesn’t matter nearly as much as the marketing talent. We might argue that there could not be any monetary value with no musical value, but it sure seems that there’s an inverse relation - the more that money is prioritized, the less musical quality is cared about. And then there’s the whole question of what constitutes musical quality - that it’s all personal bias - that I am applying the same notion of “quality” to hip hop as I am to Frank Sinatra, but if there’s one thing I’ve done right in my life, it’s to level the playing field across genres, to where I can objectively sense intentional musical creativity and aptitude in whatever style. For most of my life, when someone would ask me what my favorite kind of music is, I’d respond, “CREATIVE music.”

There are some great contemporary composers around today writing scores for the ‘video’ we like to consume.

I’m not sure I understand - are you talking about MUSIC videos? If so, I’ll admit I have cared very little for any attempt to force me to visually interpret something that I would rather use my own mind to create. So there have been maybe 3 music videos I would ever care to watch again. But if you are talking about a “motion picture” video genre of some sort where original music is written to enhance it, I would love to get examples.

As for your “want list,” I guess I am satisfied with the incredible availability and audio quality of streaming services like Qobuz and Apple Music (I subscribe to both). If it’s not there, I can likely find it on YouTube or other. But if your audiophile preference is for analog or downloaded files, if there’s any way to sort your list by priority, it might help you. My problem is that I discover new artists and recordings every day. At one point in my life, I would have been embarrassed if someone were to ask, “You haven’t heard of [insert artist here]?” But now there are just too many people - I don’t apologize for not knowing everyone.

Finally, to try and keep this on-topic, is your “want list” of music quality or audio quality or both?

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And everywhere else it seems, and not just in the world of music…

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Early on I found the sonic wonders to be found in Jazz releases and Classical, with one or two Classic Rock release. Those you have referred to come to mind. I can no longer sit through Super Tramp Crime of the Century or Pink Floyd DSOTM.

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Tastes sure do change over time. I would say that at least half of my vinyl and CD collection is on my cringe list now.

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Agree, I went through my “Classic Rock” CDs with no particular objective in mind. After revisiting them, my first thought was really??? Then I recalled the primary motivation, first CD player, and a desire to sample what the format had to offer. Those CDs have since recently found a new home. It was not the sonics that drove my decision, but the quality of the music.

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This is really interesting. My questionable taste in music has evolved, but I have not abandoned many of my earliest choices, even the musicians I should PROBABLY be embarrassed about - like Herb Alpert, Gino Vannelli and The Carpenters (I actually saw the last two in concert when I was in high school and didn’t dare tell anyone I was going). With very few exceptions I still like the music I liked then and have listened back to compare how they now sound with my better equipment, room and ears. So I guess my experience has been almost entirely expanding with little replacement.

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So, since you found the “sonic wonders” in Jazz and Classical, what do you think of my theory? Are you finding that a larger percentage of what’s out there is well recorded enough to be considered “audiophile?” Or are you still often finding a noticeable gap between “garden variety” and “audiophile?”

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I loathe labels and am more inclined to immerse myself in the music. Tags such as Audiophile find me heading for the door. I wouldn’t say Jazz and Classical were Sonic Wonders as much as I appreciated the performances, aesthetic, and the sonics just happened to fall into place.
When some visits and requests for me to play a "sonic wonder” I ask them to choose something from my collection to their liking. Otherwise It’s a blind pull from the shelf.

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Jon, thanks for reading my reply and taking the time to respond in detail. After your comments and re-reading what I wrote I can see that some clarification would be helpful.

I’ve never quite known how to answer that question either but I really like yours. I’ll use that in future if I may. :slight_smile:

I wasn’t very clear with this one was I. What I was trying to do was generalize the genre of ‘soundtracks’ to encompass music specifically written to accompany visual media. That includes not only the ‘cinema’ but, more recently, video games and ‘television’ (including what comes out of the streaming platforms). The production values for the music created for these newer visual media now rivals (IMO) those traditionally used for the ‘big screen’.

Sure. My favourite composer is John Williams whose career spans many years and movie scores. One of his earliest efforts was the original ‘Lost In Space’ TV series. (I prefer this ‘second version’ and fell in love with it as a kid having no awareness of John Williams.) There are many more but some of his more recent scores are for “Schindler’s List”, “Catch Me If You Can”, “Saving Private Ryan” and of course his prodigious contributions to the “Star Wars” franchise.

Another favourite is Hans Zimmer. Check out the music from “Inception” and the “Dune” movies, as a couple of examples. Howard Shore’s ‘grand opus’ for the “Lord of the Rings” franchise is well worth investigating, also, a little off mainstream but well worth a listen, is his score for “The Twilight Sage: Eclipse” (the ‘Score’, not the ‘Soundtrack’). Alexandre Desplat is another. Try the soundtracks for “The Girl with the Pearl Earing” or “The Imitation Game”. Michael Giacchino’s “Star Trek: Into Darkness” or “Doctor Strange” scores are also worthy. Bear McCreary is one of my favourite composers for the small screen. Some examples are his soundtracks for the “Outlander” franchise or, more recently, his music for “The Rings of Power”. For the video game genre, a couple that come to mind are Jesper Kyd’s music for the early “Assassin’s Creed” games or John Paesano’s “Marvel’s Spider-Man” soundtrack. I better stop here but there are many more that I could recommend.

I haven’t yet embraced streaming as one of my sources. I’m still locked into the old-school thinking of ‘owning’ copies of my music (and then, of course, there’s the ongoing cost). However, I made the decision sometime back to go completely digital in terms of my music ‘library’. I ripped my CD collection (of about 900 discs at the time) to files and invested in a NAS server and ‘stream’ using DLNA/UPnP. These days, I’ll download files from various sources like Qobuz, 7Digital, Bandcamp and, yes, even Octave Records. If a download is not available, I’ll buy and rip the disc. The ‘want list’ is really just a memory jogger, ordered chronologically (as I ‘discovered’ them). As I find a few spare dollars I’ll just take the next 2 or 3 from the beginning of the list (or as they may pop up on ‘special’) and ‘tick’ them off. I try to only add ‘worthy’ (an elastic definition) items to the list. Typically they are, IMO, ‘quality’ recordings mainly for the artistry of the performers, producers or engineers of the product.

PS Just a plug for the local Aus boy Nigel Westlake. He’s probably best known for his “Babe” score but check this excerpt “Wilderness is a Spell” from his iMax soundtrack to “The Edge”.

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Hey Mike, there’s nothing better than recommendations that come with what is obviously experienced listening. As for film/TV/video scores, one of my problems (among many) is that I don’t spend a lot of time in front of screens for entertainment. I would say it could be due to my visual impairment (I have the same condition as Elton John and Johnny & Edgar Winter), but I do a lot of video for my job in industrial marketing communications, so I certainly like to create video - I guess I just choose audio when it comes to serious entertainment. My wife is constantly flabbergasted at how few actors I recognize. I’ve seen some of the movies you listed, and I’m certainly aware of John Williams’ scores for several films. I will enjoy sampling some of your suggestions.

Use it with my blessing! One time back when there used to be these things called record stores, in this case Borders Books, I went up to the check-out and the cashier rang up a Frank Zappa CD, a collection of brass music by Sir William Walton, a CD by Alison Krauss, and a re-mastering of an album by Ornette Coleman, When he got through, he looked again at my purchase and said, “I’m not believing this $#!+.”

I get it. My record collection goes back to hundreds of 78s, vinyl LPs, reel-to-reel tapes, CDs, and digital audio files. My first dive into streaming began about a year and a half ago, and if it’s something I really really care about, I’ll download it and play directly just to be on the safest side. But my setup is not exactly the highest end - my library of files is on an external hard drive played through a Macbook via USB to my Schiit DAC. I do use software that ensures bit-perfect data and devices to minimize any electrical noise. I’m upgrading things as I go, but with my level of imperfection, I don’t think I’m going to notice the difference between streaming and files. At least I moved my standards up from 320K to 96/24.

Thanks again for the recommendations.

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Neither do I mate. In fact, for much of the ‘screen’ music that I like, I’ve never actually watched the movie or played the video game. In fact, I haven’t played any of the games for which I have soundtracks. ‘Gaming’ is just not my thing and I, too, don’t spend a lot of time watching for entertainment. It’s all about the music! :smile:

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Wow, so you really ARE listening only to the music of a movie or video game? I guess there’s just a part of me that assumes the music, being created to SUPPORT a visual thing, would by definition not be as complete WITHOUT the visual component. But heck, Tchaikovsky’s Nutcracker was music written to accompany dance, so how could it stand on its own without also watching a bunch of fairies dancing around (one of my best friend’s is a dance teacher, so I can get away with a snicker like that)? One of the few original score soundtracks I ever bought was “Dances with Wolves” and I guess it stands on its own, but I’ve always felt it was never “complete” without being in the movie.

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For sure Jon. I think the visual component certainly adds to the complete experience. As with many things, it’s not black and white. The musical quality and integrity of some soundtracks is strong enough for them to stand on their own (musical) merits. I think personal preference is also a strong influence.

Just a little story I picked up as I tumbled down this soundtrack rabbit hole. You may or may not know that John Williams and Steven Spielberg are not only long-time collaborators but apparently also good friends. There’s been a couple of recordings themed around the Williams/Spielberg collaboration. Apparently Spielberg encouraged and gave his blessing to expand on and record some of the music Williams had written for some of his films. This example, “Escapades for Alto Saxophone and Orchestra” was based on the music Williams wrote for the movie “Catch Me If You Can”.

Recently Williams has also been collaborating with the marvellous violinist Anne-Sophie Mutter, apparently forming a friendship based on their mutual respect for each other’s talents. Williams re-arranged some of his music specifically for Mutter. One example is “Across the Stars” from “Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones”. This is one of my favourite Williams compositions, enhanced by Mutter’s exquisite rendering. I can really sense the love between Anakin and Padmé, even if this was not quite conveyed by the actors on the big screen. :smirk:

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Hi Mike, I’ve got a BIG problem. I flew out of town last weekend to visit a friend and could only bring my lousy PC laptop. I started to listen to the Williams / Spielberg piece and couldn’t stand it, but I did get enough to know that I really want to listen on some real equipment when I get home. As for the Mutter “Across the Stars,” you linked me again to the Escapades, unless maybe that was Anne-Sophie going “shhh” in the background. Seriously, is this the recording I should listen to?

Speaking of pieces for saxophone and orchestra, the one and only time I got my name on a real CD was as an assistant engineer on a classical recording of music by Robert Ward. I’m now thinking that EVERYTHING is on YouTube because I just found the Allegro movement from our recording. And again, I’m on my lousy craptop, so I can’t even evaluate much - I haven’t listened to it in some 35 years. But it was a great experience.

Thanks again for the links!

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