I expect they will be colorful.
2 Likes
How about a DAC with a tube output stage? So far Iâm enjoying the sound of my DAC Jr, and maybe I shouldnât jump to any conclusions yet, becase the DAC isnât completely broken-in yet, but unless I add a good tube preamp to my system, there are certain aspects of the sound of my Ayon tubed CD player that I like better. Having one box instead of two would be my preference.
Isnât the Ayon a CD player + pre? I had the Ayon Sigma DAC and itâs the best DAC Iâve heard at its price point. I wouldnât hesitate using an Ayon CD player without an external DAC.
One thing that most people donât think about when they are trying to figure out the cost of a manufactured product is all of the fixed overhead costs.
In a civilized developed country like ours those costs are high. Wages, benefits, insurances, income tax, property tax, real estate tax, state sales tax, licenses, equipment rent, equipment purchased, tooling, R&D, building cost, maint. and repairs, utilities, travel expenses, etc.
In a relatively small specialty shop like PS Audio fixed overhead and expenses could easily be more than half of every product sold. And when you are all done at the end of the year you still have to make enough of a profit to keep the lights on and new product development going.
The cost of labor in China for instance is near zero. When the cost is near zero you can add a whole lot of labor for not much money. You really cannot compare costs between undeveloped and developed countries unless you factor in environmental and infrastructure differences which are huge.
We also like to have reliable electric power, clean air, clean water, nice roads, safe streets, garbage pickup, internet service, cable or satellite TV and a whole lot of other niceties that make living here expensive but worth while and so many people still trying to immigrate to this country.
I donât mind paying a premium for things still made here and this seems to be a good place to get them. I like the mentality at PS Audio.
2 Likes
The cost of labor in China is not near zero. It may be significantly lower than it is elsewhere, but zero it is not.
I cannot wait for this! PSA is awesome. MR smith makes better DAC and offers to backport features to the DS. What company does that? Amazing. Like phones can only expect 3 updates until you buy new one. No one values their customers like PSA! DS is already a very awesome DAC. If you are planning on TSS you better have very good other gear IMO. I sincerely hope he outdoes Select DAC 2! Given the price difference that should be pretty amazing if it occurs.
Its not zero, but it is near zero. Transportation costs are relatively high and it costs a lot for Americans to live there but the labor cost to manufacture is in fact ânear zeroâ although it has come up in the last 15-20 years or so after America was used to buying those items on the cheap and almost no American manufacturers were left. Think clothing, shoes, electronics, blister packed everything, Amazon almost everything.
The cost to the planet is particularly high there but the absolute labor cost is extremely low. I think the only places labor costs are lower are Vietnam and Africa. Probably some other third world countries that donât have any manufacturing base yet.
Looks like in the outlying areas the wage is $150 - $300 per month and in Beijing it is $1200 per month. Most manufacturing jobs there are 12 hr / day 6 or 7 days a week so roughly 300 hr / month = $0.50 per hour in the country to $4.00 per hour in the big city (which the article says is 4 times the area wage)
My manufacturing employees start at $20.00 / hr and the top level is currently $36.00 / hr plus overtime for more than 8 hours a day. So my employees make between 5 and 72 times the hourly wages of the Chinese factory worker depending on which end of the scale you compare. So they can spend between 5 and 72 times more labor hours on the same piece to make the money equal.
I donât see how that can be considered competition in any way, shape or form and it is still ânear zeroâ by comparison.
The same article states that workers receive a 37% housing allowance. The average worker in Beijing thus receives $20,000 a year. Not near zero.
The cost to the planet is high as you say.
The traditional âdirtyâ (blue collar) manufacturing jobs are the ones that pay $0.50 to $1.00 per hour and represent 80% or more of the labor force there. The jobs in Beijing are more âhigh techâ (think silicon valley) and less traditional âdirtyâ manufacturing. I always try to buy made in USA whenever possible just to support our lifestyle here and not support one like that.
Buying made in the USA is a side step simplification, almost a ruse. US companies are âlocatedâ all over the world. Their strategies are to make money on sales, not where made. Perhaps the only thing about US companies that is made in the US is the greenback. (Of this doesnât apply to most small companies, such as your local thrift store.)
As long as they spec "over thereâ they spare some pollution here, but not world wide.
I readily agree my points are full of holes, but no more so, than âmade in the USâ. And I make one exception to PS Audio due to my personal self interests.
Keep on shopping,
Chas
Thereâs a lot covered and subsidized in China thatâs not included in your analysis. And the benefits of having a planned economy allow the kinds of shifts being carried out, even with a corrupt and anti-democtratic Stalinist leadership and bureaucracy, and its allowing speculative capitalist elements that undermine the collectivist enterprise.
I understand that youâre trying to make a success of a modest sized business, but given that wages have basically stagnated or decreased in the U.S. since the early 1970s, and major U.S. companies intentionally went south and then abroad starting around that time in order to pay lower wages, I wouldnât get too carried away in attacking China.
My $0.02 (RE: a nuance of this discussion):
Seems there is some conflating of economics with politics hereinâŚDoes anyone seriously dispute that on a purely economic (i.e., cost of doing business) basis, that a manufacture of âwidgetsâ in China has a material advantage over a manufacturer in the U.S.?
Curious as to what others have to say (âpoliticsâ aside, please)âŚ
Regards.
Nobody disputes it. Thatâs why there is so much capital investment in China, why so much manufacturing has moved there, and why China has a burgeoning middle class.
1 Like
This whole thing of cheap labor or innovations that disrupt a market are common, have always happened and will happen again. One of the worst, horrible people who really crushed American labor was⌠Henry Ford. He built a thing called a âfarm tractorâ and âautomobileâ. These inventions transformed an entire national economy from agrarian to manufacturing⌠while putting millions of people out of work. Just horrible. Read Grapes of Wrath. But this is OK, as long as it is within the USA?
Support American way of life? What does that mean when you worked in a textiles factory in Massachusetts and all the factories closed and went to ⌠Americaâs South? That is somehow OK as long as it is withing the USA?
It happened, it is happening, it will happen again. It is just the way things work⌠or donât work.
There is one trend that is predictable: The âeconomyâ relies less on labor and more on education more and more and more⌠and more tomorrow. 1800s and prior, the economy required physical strength, then skill (mfg jobs in the USA peaked in 1947 and has been in steady decline since then⌠surprised?), then education, and now diversity of knowledge.
Farm worker, factory worker, office worker, knowledge worker.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
1 Like
Very true , I bought the totaldac twelve 32k and every time there was a upgrade it was 3-5 k , long story short got sick of that game and sold it . The open market brought me 15k and I was lucky to get that . I now use a direct stream and Iâm happy . Unless you plan on keeping a high end DAC for good donât bother buying it , way to much of a loss
Almost forgot the manufacture offered to purchase the 32k DAC back for 6000 and I was also told if I listed it for sale they would not upgrade it . I had to agree to keep it 2 yrs ⌠that was the end for me
4 Likes
" I now use a direct stream and Iâm happy ."
rodneyu⌠your post speaks volumes to the DS dac haters of the world. Totaldac could certainly learn from the PS Audio playbookâŚ
Talk about outright consumer manipulationâŚholy shit!!!