@ John_H That looks gorgeous! Are those the lovely Von Schweikert VR 55 in the background?.. I own the VR5 Anniversary Mk 2.5 (last ones made), and will be keeping them for a LOONG TIME.
I am planning on a P20 sometime later this year or early next (as soon as funds allow). I cant see how using a P20 to run an entire system will not improve the entire system. Please let us know the improvements to your system with the P20s in :-)
Elk - So I decided to add a pair of REL subs to the SF Guareni Evolution main speakers. I plugged them into the P20 group (high current); that group was free and I wanted to make sure there were no power issues to the subs. Each sub has a 350W amplifier. The REL subs are magnificent and add bass extension to the SF main speakers. Good subs that are well placed are not heard from, just a bass extension of the main speakers as a sound stage. Now the sound stage has so much more presence.
Great choice – the REL’s. What’s up with the tube traps being elevated? Just curious…
Scotte1 - So after multiple emails with John Hunter, I decided to remove the lower 3ft section of each corner 16in ASC isothermal bass trap. This would give the sub a footprint; as you can see, won’t fit in the corner with 9.5ft tall (6in stand) bass trap. I put the (2) 3ft sections together and placed them on the glass rack top. There are (3) high pressure areas for LF - attack wall corners and attack wall center, all at the ceiling is the highest pressure. I have not added the stacked 6ft bass trap yet. I’ve bought the hardware needed to measure the room using REW (Room Eq Wizard) software. I bought a J-Tech HDMI to TOSLINK convertor w/ 12ft TOSLINK cable and a USB mic with stand. I will now remove all the acoustic treatments, then measure the room and add back the bass traps where needed. So, the “answer the mail” answer is room for the REL subs and the highest low freq pressure is felt at the ceiling. Below is the initial room with no subs. I also performed the SUMIKO “master” speaker placement procedure which moved the main speakers out toward each wall. The room is small so LF content is difficult to manage. This increased the size of the sound stage from 6.5ft to 8ft. I then moved the 13in bass traps further back. All of this acoustic treatments may change depending on the room acoustic measurement results. This is a work in progress.
10-4.
You might want to experiment with moving those REL subs out of the corners. They are so good that, in my experience, corner loading is not universally the best placement.
Since you are going to employ REW, you should be able to see what works best with some placement and measurement experimenting. I suspect that you also have room nodes to deal with in the corners near the floor. But, you are taking a pretty sophisticated approach, so I am sure you will end up optimizing your set up as best as you can. Have fun, and thanks for the reply.
Scott
PS
FWIW, I have a single sub set up in my big rig at home (huge, “vintage” SVS ultra plus/2) and my office system (REL T/5i). In both instance, after experimenting with different placements, I have settled on placing the subs slightly out from the right wall about 1/3 in to the room from the front wall. With the REL, in particular, I just could not tame it with corner loading. Now it just disappears. I don’t have any corner traps (yet) so that might partly explain where I ended up.
SEE
Scotte1 - This room is a lot more complex than you assumed, based on pics you have seen. The fact that this room is small is lost on the rear geometry; causing the very low end to be reduced substantially (20Hz - 30Hz; 10dB). If it was sealed room, the opposite would happen. I got this room measurement SW & HW just to see how bad the room really is and it is bad enough. In addition, I have moved out the subs quite a bit and they sound their maximum in the corners, disappear, and keep up quite well with the SF main speakers. They are located about 6in from each wall at 45 degrees into the room. These SF mains and REL subs create a sound stage and I never listen to speakers, including the subs… just a sound stage, they disappear, sounding like a bass extension of the SF main speakers. What I like about the REL subs is their ability to disappear and the sound stage now has presence in the first few octaves. I am in the process of listening to my favorites over. Queen’s greatest hits sound amazing with the low end extended. They loved their bass and now I feel the music. In addition you have to watch out, these REL subs can now be heard on the other side of the house outside. Make sure all your wall art is buffered, they are powerful; however, not in a bass bump sense, just low end clear & beautiful presence. I just got them last week so there will be a lot of movement, crossover & gain measuring and sound testing. This will be a lot of fun and will take me months of fun. I will keep you posted.
Scotte1 - having a pair of REL subs may have something to do with not really needing to move them toward the center of the room. The pair together is really powerful and I don’t need to have them cranked up. However, I will play with the placement and I appreciate your insights.
Understood; thanks for the response. Glad to hear you have been so successful in making the subs disappear. The REL’s really are impressive, aren’t they? Have fun.
Does anyone know if the trigger for the p20 can be set to delayed for trigger output?
Currently the P20 doesn’t support setting a delay on the trigger output.
I’ve notified the team that you’re interested in it, though, so we’ll see about adding it when we redesign the online interface PowerPlay.
Keep in mind, the P20 does allow you to set custom behavior for outlets when the P20 is put into or out of standby.
So for instance you can set a 3 second (or a 5 second, 10 second, whatever you want) delay on power on and power off when you take the P20 in and out of standby.
I would like the P20 to keep all outlets on all the time, and allow the trigger input from another unit to active P20 trigger but with delayed trigger output from P20 to say BHK 300’s. This will allow the main ( preamp ) triggering unit to stabilize fully before the BHK amps are full on. Does this make sense?
I’m not sure I follow.
If you have the BHK 300s on the P20 and you have the P20 outlets set to always on, then the trigger doesn’t matter - the P20 will always be passing power regardless of whether the P20 is in standby or not.
Here’s my recommendation, hopefully I understand your goals.
It sounds like you want most of your gear to stay on all the time, with the BHK monos flipping on and off after the system has stabilized.
You can use the outlet programming on the P20 to achieve this goal.
If you want everything except the BHK 300s to stay on all the time, you would go to the P20 settings and change the outlets for everything except your BHK 300s to “always on.” You would then set the outlets used by the BHK 300s to “delayed.”
With this setup, when the P20 comes out of standby (via the trigger input or the remote power button), the BHK 300s will power on after a 3 second delay. Everything else will be on at all times.
You can program a longer delay if you would like.
Hopefully this helps! If I missed the mark let me know your goal and I’ll do what I can to get you info on how best to set things up.
Yes, it missed sorry. I want my preamp and amps to stay warm at all times. However, my preamp ( non PSA ) has tubes, and the time it comes out of standby is longer then the BHK 300’s. So I simply need to delay the 300’s trigger IF I use the preamp trigger to turn the 300’s on. Otherwise I have to use the p20 remote to do this since it’s trigger with the on/ off button on the remote. Would be nice to to have to use two remotes. No a huge deal, just a thought.
Ohh I follow you. Yeah, we would need the option to delay the trigger. We should be able to include that when PowerPlay goes live again this summer. Until then, though, I don’t think there’s a good way to work around it.
So this item could work as a trigger delay right?
Or, should you feel like it, you can make a small Arduino project. You would need a relay, a 12v power source, an Arduino Uno, and an IR receiver, and some (very basic) programming skills. Fun to do it. Just did it myself, to overcome the lack of an out trigger on my Aesthetix Calypso pre. Cost me around US$50 here in Brazil.
I plan to have my Janus upgraded to the signature in June, Aesthetix will add a trigger for an extra 75.00. So I will only need to delay the trigger output from there so that the Janus is fully stable before the BHK 300 are full up.
Note that the Calypso (at least in my standard version), comes alive always in mute. Therefore you should not worry about it stabilizing before the BHKs. It won’t send any signal to the amps.
At least, I have never run into any kind of problem (loud noises or any of the kind)
That’s true! Hun, I musta powered up one day is error. I’ll try again.
