Octave Questions

Roon and Innuos 2.0 user here. Innuos does not even come close to Roon in managing the library. Yes, it integrates qobuz with your local files, and sports a similar look and feel. But it stops there.

You cannot group albums by artists. And I artists page you can’t filter by genre. You cannot edit qobuz metadata, so the tags you apply to your own files will not be applicable to qobuz’. It really becomes a mess when sorting through 10,000 tracks of several genre.

Not even the folder browsing helps.

Innuos does not provide any kind of dsp (no parametric eq, no convolution engine).

Roon is still the one to be beaten.

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I manage my library with Apple Music and a Metadata editor. That is only possible if Apple Match, i.e. iCloud synchronization is switched off.

I use BluOS to play the local library and Apple AirPlay / Music to play music from Apple Music.

The benefit. I sync my iOS Devices manually with the local Apple Music library such that I have the same music on the road without having to use data.

Roon may be very good, but I just can not justify its cost and sure want to limit subscription services to an absolute minimum.

That is a personal decision. But keeping streaming and local files apart is the biggest no go for me.

I experimented with minim server, Linn kazoo, lumin, Plex, apple and DCs mosaic. Minim server + bubbleupnp was ok. Mosaic a bit better. Lumin app was a great letdown.

I settled to roon mainly for this integration (and then I got spoiled by other roon goodies).

The innuos has this integration. For me, it is one step ahead of the rest of the pack and I could live with it. Had I not been spoiled by roon in library editing.

But, then again: everything is so personal here, and there is no absolute right and wrong.

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Yes, it is all personal! I reduced the number of servers that I run in the house to four: Plex, LMS (for multiroom and outside), Twonky (for DSD) and Bluesound (because Rudolf is right; it is nice and it plays music both from FLAC files from a NAS and via streaming). There was also Roon loaded on an Antipodes. But it is gone now. Various devices map to the NAS themselves, e.g., Marantz-Denon Heos items (very poor user function compared with Bluesound) and a Sony Bluray for DSD Surround (crap user interface, but it works!). And there is Amazon music as well. I dropped Tidal as I like buying downloads via Bandcamp and Qobuz.

I have been waiting on PS Audio Octave to help me get rid of Twonky and Bluesound. And various other remaining hardware will finally “go” too.

Plex I will keep, not just for sharing playback of media legally, but also for driving on the road. With cheap unlimited data tariffs… contracted in Germany for EU roaming… data use is not a factor. I use the Plex Winamp app via Apple Car Play and Android Auto.

It is all personal preferences indeed and in no way was my post intended to criticize.

I love the way I can maintain a single library for both BluOS and AirPlay. Which is my main driver.

Apple Music does integrate my local library with online content seamless.

For local content I prefer BluOS as the remote functions are more reliable than with Apple AirPlay. My volume went crazy twice when I used AirPlay to change it. So bad I was afraid for my speaker drivers and ears. It went well a hundred times or so and then out of the blue it would jack the SPL to max just clicking on the + button for single step increase in Apple Music.

So now I set volume with BluOS or NAD remotes only. Forget Siri. I do not like voice control.

Not that I can hear any difference, it may just be to feel comfortable, but BluOS plays bit perfect and AirPlay up-samples Redbook to 24 bit 48 kHz. For on-line content I do not care at all. I use it to explore music and buy a CD or vinyl record if I really like the music. Or use streaming as back ground music for which sound quality is not that critical.

It is all personal. And as you can read, my method comes with downsides.

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We shall see if PS Audio can release something truly wonderful.

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If that was all I got for Christmas, I would be a very happy camper.

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Hi @Paul,

congrats for FR-30 speakers, they are wonderful and I’m so anxious to test them during next months after the launch (in Italy I don’t know your marketing strategy).

Here a question about the coming Octave streamer: it will be possible to use my MacMini - Octave streamer - DS DAC sr (via I2S) I suppose, both for streaming from Roon/Quobuz internet along to use the MacMini as a server (even if I prefer so much to play Cd/SACD from PST at all). Without any other matrix, box, LPS, etc. in the chain on the rack. Is it right? Almost until the new Perfect Wave Octave server/streamer will be ready.

But for what concern DVD i use to play from Apple DVD player of the MacMini? It means that I usually watch a concert (audio and video) from DVD, video by OLED monitor from USB port of the MacMini and audio by DS DAC sr (and in future by Octave(I2S). It will be possible? This is the reason why I think to keep MacMini in my chain, only for DVD audio/video concert purpose.

No space in my rack to add a dedicated external DVD player (with more cable to add and more P12 plugs to hook).

Thank you.

There are no current specifications available for the device. Octave will apparently support ROON as an endpoint and Qobuz will be supported. The only use for your mini would be to stream DVD’s you could just connect it when you want to use that feature if your concerned about space.

The fact that Octave is only a Roon Enpoint means there has to be a separate computer in the chain to run Roon Server.

What I am unclear about is how will the computer running Roon Server stream its output to the DAC

I believe the Octave will receiver music files into it via the Ethernet ( Qobuz Tidal, etc ), USB local hard drive or NAS via Ethernet.

I am not sure that the Roon server has the ability to output its music files over the Ethernet without some specialty card interface.

There seems to be devices tripping over themselves in this scenario.

The thing that would stop me from using just Octave over Roon is that they don’t have a Roon radio feature which I use all the time.

Anyone have idea how this will lash up?

I think I just figured this out I imaging that Octave would just be a an Audio Device on the Roon PC much like if I have a DDC between my Roon server and my DAC.

Your Roon core/server just needs to be on the same network. Octave as an end point will find the core. I used to have mine about 80 feet from my audio gear and it worked fine with a combination of wired and wireless endpoints.

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In this setup consider Roon source, Octave as transport, and DAC, well, the DAC :slight_smile:

The source holds the music files (or, in the case of Roon, can handle the Internet streaming from radio, qobuz, etc.). You select the source material and the endpoint to send it to in Roon. That endpoint is the Octave transport. Roon sends the audio to the transport over the network encapsulated in a protocol they call Roon Advanced Audio Transport (RAAT). The transport receives this encapsulated audio, decodes it, and re-encodes it into something your DAC can understand like USB, AES, SPDIF, etc.

Octave Server is its owns source but I’ve not seen all of the various ways Octave, and the different boxes in the Octive line, can be set-up. I know at least one way they plan is an all in one box as source+transport (locally stored files/streaming with a digital output the DAC can understand). Roon isn’t required in that setup but a few of us already run Roon and will probably stick with it. Having a very nice digital transport, like Octave, will be a good upgrade. And, honestly, being able to swap in/out different transports is one of the reasons I like how Roon architecture works. Separates forever!

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Hopefully the launch Octave device will not need Roon just to stream music. Back in July, Paul commented “Hopefully sometime in October”, to the question: “Any feel for when you might start teasing us with some images of new Octave app controller screenshots or info on which music streaming services will be supported etc?” Presumably Qobuz will be in there. In 2018 Paul said: “You can bet Qobuz will be central to our upcoming Octave system”. Tidal is on the PS Audio Bridge already, right? But Amazon Music is not so easy, unlike with Bluesound where it is, right?

I understood James‘ positive announcement of the BHK 600 as first product maybe this year, as a delay announcement for the whole Octave stuff.

What makes you think they do not have the resources to release both as planned?

…that jamesh said the BHK is probably the first new product this year and comes at the end of the year…this means to me, there’s no other new product before it.

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So those of us who are not in for a power amp upgrade could be a bit richer by Christmas :grin:.

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As of 3-4 weeks ago, Paul indicated that the DSD MkII is still on target for the end of the year, then added “possibly sooner”. But that could all change in a split second. The changing parts shortage, the COVID pandemic and variants, etc.

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Hopefully there could still be some beta Octave streamers before the end of the year. But I’m not holding my breath on any of these products.

But Paul is still saying it’s on target for the end of the year release……Wait, he didn’t say this year, just “the year”. In the year 2525 ?? Seriously, all the problems our world is seeing, a sure by the end of THIS year could turn into a hopefully by the end of next year in one second. Parts shortages, COVID and it’s variants, all the forces of nature that seem to be getting worse, and blah, blah blah. Accurate release estimates are next to impossible to get right. We will see these products whenever we see them, and no sooner!! Arrrrgggggg!!1

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