Octave Questions

Network Audio
144

There’s no point @Rudolf_Appel criticising Linn for not making a DAC or disk spinner. They made a firm decision some 15 years ago to abandon CDs and other discs of any sort and have never made a standalone DAC. The only make “Network Music Players” and that has been the case since 2007. They have been extraordinarily consistent in their design concept and now have products at 4 different price points. Basically one box fed into an amplifier of preferably their active speakers. Hence their players also have balanced and unbalanced line inputs so no other boxes are needed.
https://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Akurate_Exakt_System

I had an Exakt DS1 about 11 years ago. The current version looks exactly the same, but it now has huge additional functionality and connectivity.

145

I have to agree with @magicknow and @stevensegal above. I’d like to share my experience, not sure it aligns with others who have used Roon… but here goes. I have been running Roon Server since its inception. Prior to RAAT protocol, I would agree, that several other players out-performed Roon for sound quality. Splitting Roon to core server and endpoint via their RAAT protocol made a significant improvement in sound quality. In a perfect world, Roon Core should not be sitting in an audio rack, as its main intention is a library management system. An optimized end-point is far more critical than the server. Within the past year, playing via RAAT to a Roon end-point (either Bridge II, SOTM SMS200 Ultra, or Sonore uRendu) with a properly optimized network, and running the endpoint on a good linear power supply - we cannot detect any difference in sound quality based on switching up the protocol between the server and end-point. That does not mean that each end-point sounds the same - far from it, they all sound different, easily detectable. Currently, the SOTM SMS200Ultra with linear PS >> Matrix SPDIF2 >> I2S into the DS DAC sounds superior to everything else I have. Every 12 months or so, I go back to J river, or a UPNP server on my dedicated server, and switch up the protocol… No change in overall sound quality. What I do get, is annoyed with the less than stellar UI / UX of the other apps. Back Roon server goes. My system is revealing, I can hear the impact that a different power cord makes on the server - albeit very slight, and difficult to detect 100% of the time, it is audible. As of 2020, in my main system, the implementation of Roon sounds consistent with everything else. If there is a difference, we cannot detect it. All this said, about 2 years ago, streaming from Roon Core via LMS protocol sounded slightly more musical and alive than streaming via RAAT. IME, this is not the case anymore. I have to agree with what others said, that sound quality differences boils down to the hardware implementation, network configuration, power supply on the renderer, Ethernet cable going to the render, etc.

I also think for PSA’s sake, the endpoint protocol doesn’t need to be binary. Meaning, PS could focus on Octave as an initial roll out, but implement the “Roon Bridge” or RAAT protocol into the upcoming endpoint. I.E it may not be there by default, but allow users to enable it.

I completely understand Paul’s perspective of being in control of one’s destiny, and as a manufacturer it makes sense. As a consumer though, I have never been a fan of closed systems. For personal reasons we have far too many Roon end-points here to switch, my only regret is not subscribing to a Roon lifetime membership 6 years ago ;-).

2 Likes
146

Hi Steven it was rather an observation than criticism.

But I simply like to buy music in a real physical music store where I can talk to people, unwrap the package, have the cover art in my hand and put it in a drawer or on a platter to actually see something happen with which I can associate the sound I am going to hear.

You are right that streaming (from my own server) is very convenient and I certainly do that too, but for me the real quality time is if something spins. It’s got nothing to do with sound quality or sound reasoning, just personal perception. So I do find it a petty that good CD or SACD players are made by so few companies.

Regarding Linn DAC:
They have recently released the SELEKT DSM which can be configured as a DAC, but according to some reviews it was an act of self fulfilling prophecy, the DAC in the SELEKT DSM seemed to sound worse than the streamer. An all subjective non substantive verdict off course as the sound quality depends on the complete chain and might have been badly influenced by the source or huh, the cable (there I’ve said it).

Regarding Linn LP12:
I adore the LP12, if Thorens would not have released their brand new TD1601 my next turntable would have been a Linn. Their fully balanced Uphorik phonostage is the best sounding I have heard till date (on a Linn Majik turntable with a nice Japanese MC cartridge and their own Kristal cartridge).

However the Thorens TD1601 is considered the very worthy successor of the original TD150/TD160. Back I the 70’s the UK tax department had huge tariffs on those Thorens turntables and as such Ivor Tiefenbrun had the grand idea build the LP12 to the same sub chassis concept as the Thorens TD150/TD160. Both Thorens and Linn used the Sub Chassis concept developed by Edgar Wilchur of Acoustic Research.

Now the Linn LP 12 in it’s least expensive version is still more expensive than the TD1601, while the Thorens has really nice new features that make it operate easier and some reviews claim, sound better, but that is also subjective.

Fun is, that the heat/competition between Thorens and Linn is on again.

1 Like
147

With regard to seeing things spin, you are so 20th Century !!! Rest assured you are not alone.

I’ve seen but not looked at the SeleKt DSM. I know it is modular, and have just read that the DAC module comes in two versions. It doesn’t make sense to use it just as a DAC.

I must admit I know nothing about LP12’s or Thorens. In recent years I had a German acrylic thing and then from 2014 a unit from the Republic of North Yorkshire, made to the most exacting standards of which 60 units exist in the world. I use tow phono amps, the one inside Devialet Expert Pro for MM, which is smaller than a playing card, an a Vertere for MC.

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148

With a separate box, I’d presume you’d output via I2S to the DAC. That may conflict with users who already use both I2S DAC inputs as well as a Bridge II. Any chance the interface slot for the Bridge II (in the DAC) could be replaced by a board which would convert it to another I2S input or maybe a specialized interface for the separate Bridge III input?

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149

Yes I am so 20th century, I know Steven. I still have my Nikon D700 with the 1990’s 80-200 mm f2.8 that I purchased originally with my first F801s reflex film camera. I know that means something to a foto enthousiast like you. Than I mount it the old fashion way on a Really Right Stuff tripod. Yes that’s me, why I do this? Because I like it.

Your turntable is a Vertere if I remember correct, a piece of art in the good meaning of the word.
Mind posting a picture?

150

Got off track here, but Octave might pull me into the streamer/server business. I like the complete business model, now I need to see if it works and if hopefully they will release a Stellar series piece of hardware for it.

151

Hello Philippe,
Thank you and I am glad to learn this.
By any chance have auditioned the Mini, if so how goes it stack up against the U1.

152

OK - see system photos

153

You can’t even connect an Auralic G2 by USB with Bridge II installed. At least I couldn’t.

154

That’s weird. Should work fine.

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155

Worked here no problem. Are you sure you were using the right USB port on the Auralic?

156

yes, also the coax etc. didn’t work…and with abother non Bridge II DS it did work with the same G2

157

Sounds like that particular DS had problems as I have run my DS with Bridge from the Aries G1 into both the USB and AES connections with no problems. The Aries G series doesn’t like another device in between it and the DAC though.

158

Hi @terryakhan, no I have not, sorry I cannot help you there.

159

do you have an idea of ​​the date of the octave release. if no idea i will go with something else

160

did I open a ghost door … everyone seems very quiet
No aproximative date ?

161

In another thread Pul mentioned mid-2020 estimate I believe.

162

Must admit I am a little deafened by the silence here.
Asked the same question on the other thread and there was pretty much the same lack of response.
No comments about progress, no updates just vague guesses about what may (or maybe not?) be happening.
Yes, I would like to see someone be upfront and tell us the story.
Can’t help wondering if there are not some behind the scenes software or hardware problems (or both)!
Not saying this to extract some more details, just expressing the frustration that things seem to be dragging on forever and we (the potential customers) don’t know what is going on.
Can’t remember how long ago it was that I started the other Octave thread but it must be a couple of years.
Will say that even if there are software or hardware problems this would not exclude me as a potential customer as I am a current PS Audio customer, I love the company and I love the Octave concept.
Just some thoughts.
Looking forward to some comments.
Bruce

1 Like
163

There’s a reason for that.

For reference, see the AN3/FR-30 thread. Put 2 and 2 together, and multiply by that factor ; ).

Have a comestible/combustible of choice.