Octave Records - why only DSD64 available for purchase?

Thanks, Ted. I’ll get my head wrapped around this eventually - I hope.

There are other reasons to like double or quad rate for upsampling - the more frequency room you have the more options for tailoring the noise floor or other tradeoffs. With single rate DSD the options are fairly constrained.

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This makes sense.

Fascinating stuff.

I’m listening to 16/44 WAV. Am I meant to have an inferiority complex?

Mozart violin sonatas. Lovely.

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Not at all! I think the Format thing is no longer terribly relevant in most applications, unless chasing whatever the Ultimate Current Thing is matters to you for some reason. I’m usually blissfully ignorant of what the sample and bit rate is of whatever I’m listening to. It has been a decades-long road during which that was a lot more relevant, and so it is a big relief.

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I think it’s one of those “if you think it’s better than it is better” irregardless of the physical measurements one way or the other. Kind of like wires :smile:

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Hi @Paul

Any chance you can share a response why only DSD64 is available for purchase?

Is it because Gus’ system is limited to DSD64 recording/mixing/mastering?

That is correct. Sonoma is only capable of DSD64 (or 1XDSD). We are working on developing a new system that can handle 4XDSD but that’s going to take some time. Some companies upsample but that’s not the pure approach we would want to take.

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Sounds like things are getting closer to recording in DSD256 rates , from your latest video. Much much better than the old outdated Sonoma system at DSD64 which has lots of technical issues, as per earlier posts.

Merging and RME have had DSD256 recorders for a while now.

I assume this means DSD256 recordings will start to be available soon too?

Correct. We will start recording everything in 256 once the new studio is up and running. And yes, we will begin making them available for download when we do.

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Where will this sweet spot be with the Mk II and TSS?

Roughly the sweet spot is different for each bit width, i.e. it’s different for one bit than, say five bit or sixteen bit. One bit is the most sensitive to jitter so it’s lower for one bit than other sample widths. It’s the same for the DS Mk II and the TSS as the DS. At the next level of detail I can’t really say whether lower jitter of the Mk II and TSS will do more or less to raise the sweet spot than their lower noise.

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Thanks Ted! If things are similar to the DS here, this seems to mean, as soon as Octave is recording in DSD256 or DSD512, this format might sound worse on PSA DAC’s than todays DSD sample rates…

No, 256 may be just past the best, but it’s not the worst… It’s just that going higher doesn’t keep getting better. 512 would still probably be better than 64. 256 is definitely better than 64.

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Ok, thanks Ted, didn’t mean to say DSD256 and DSD512 might be worse sounding than ALL of todays DSD sample rates on your DAC‘s, but if DSD128 is probably better than both, the higher ones still make little sense.

Maybe Paul should better record in DSD128?

Many DACs perform better at DSD256 compared with DSD128. Not all.

Ted can’t say yet because those products aren’t done yet but I’n sure it will be the case.

I don’t think Paul needs to stop everything and change to recording DSD128. What he’s doing is taking a huge effort.

Better record at DSD256 and make sure all the gear (including future gear) performs best at this rate

Saw your new video and you hint at the ultimate solution but I know it’s not easy.

Recording at 5bit 11.2MHz would be the bees knees.

Maybe @tedsmith can make you something !

You can see DSD64 noise clearly here in this video, in the frequency range where amplifiers may go into oscillation (my amp is flat to 100kHz). And tweeters may behave funny.

This video is consistent with the stuff I posted earlier in the thread by Andreas Koch regarding issues with DSD64.

And probably a big reason for PS Audio going to higher DSD rates.

Issues with DSD64 are widely acknowledged by the experts.

According to his [Koch’s] figure 2 at the beginning of this thread, the inherent noise of standard rate DSD is -140dB at 20,000Hz, -130dB at 30,000Hz.

As already addressed earlier in this thread, this not going to ruin your music listening enjoyment. :slight_smile:

Also already addressed is why Octave was selling DSD64.

Thread closed to avoid a repeat of the Bad review of PS P12 thread, just like the earlier thread posting tise same ASR video is closed.

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