I had an interesting experience about 10 years ago working with a client who was one of the world’s top guys in pharmaceutical market research. The amount of money they spend researching how to market products is pretty mind-boggling, before they even do the marketing. You could probably count the number of hi-end companies that even research how to market their products on one hand. I think the issue is that brand consultancy is pretty expensive and, as you say, hi-end is a puny industry.
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You can easily get taken in at a listening session. I recently spoke to an owner of Trilogy equipment he was selling, he’d had it 6 months and it must have cost him €20,000. They can be great amplifiers, but if he’d checked the impedance measurements he wouldn’t have bought them. So the mistake not checking cost him €10,000. I didn’t buy them, but was severely tempted.
I vote yes. It’s important to keep manufacturers honest. For example the claim that MK2 is quieter than Mk1. Also one manufacturer not long ago claim their amp is rated to 200W but in reality only can do 100W, not measuring will allow these manufacturers to get away with false advertising.
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Very true
False claims can be very costly
As long as done right and the conclusions are based upon proper test. But often these are silly. This has less inaudible noise than that. who cares…both are not heard.
Then there are the cases not done right. So this is a bit of a loaded pole. its hard to say no as its how we “rate” equipment. But needs to be done right with the right conclusion. Not everything operates under the same principals.
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Ever seen a review with measurements of a fuse? But people spend thousands of dollars on them.
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I do but I think I know where your question is coming from (ASR). The debate between “objectivists and subjectivists”.
I appreciate and consider measurements when picking a component BUT at the end of the day it is what sounds good to me, in my room listening to my music.
Another thing about measurements that I find useless are differences that humans cannot perceive. My neighbor’s dogs might have my SEMIT drivers, to me they sound crisp up to where my hearing cuts off.
If this tool is accurate, I dont reach as far as I should.
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Reminds me of the lawsuit against Ford for cars that didn’t get the HP figures advertised. Well, it depends on which dyno you used and under which conditions.
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ASR makes judgements on a limited set of measurements to the exclusion of everything else. Most people probably consider a broader set of measurements and other factors, such as aesthetics, app, price etc.
Measurements were far more critical in the early days of hifi when audible distortion was a reality and reviews, or technical reports, predominated and largely dominated over the subjective. When you can clearly hear distortion the objective and subjective merge. Of course lots of people bought Marconiphones and Radiograms in nice mahogany cabinets, and later the legendary systems designed by Dieter Rams for Braun, that looked good and sounded pretty awful.
Some people are purely subjective, others purely objective, I reckon most people are in the middle.
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The poll needs a third response.
Something like:
I read them but they are just a part of the decision process.
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Absolutelly yes it does!!..thanks Vince!!
Best wishes
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The only sound quality I hope for in my shoes is silence. It’s rare that they meet that expectation, however.
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I’m with those who say they’re only important in system matching, whether that’s amp and speakers, cables and the boxes they attach to, cartridge compliance and tonearm mass, etc. And all they do is get you in the ballpark. The rest, for me, is listening.
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Howdy Baldy,
Sure agree with your comments and “real world” audio perspective re: measurements vs specs.
I have to diverge with the “twist rate” analogy. In a given caliber bore and length, the twist rate will limit the accuracy of an otherwise very accurate rifle to a relatively narrow range of bullet weights…….notwithstanding, that same rifle will “like” some bullets of the same weight of one manufacture over another. Go read blogs of shooting hobbyists and they are often sound a lot like “us”, for similar reasons, I think.
All this SO makes me remember how long, very brilliant participants in our hobby (particularly our digital world) have concluded arguments like these with “all things matter”……and/or “the more we learn about digital the more we realize that we still don’t know”. Are we still in that place more than we eat to admit?
Back to your original point, I think, if a new component in-hand consistently hits one’s “auditory bullseye”, neither specs nor measurements may ever fully explain why.
As one humble and happy DS owner, it might bore the hell out of me if they did.
John in Texas
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“Like” to admit…
agree, emphasis on “fully”
Who doesn’t care if an amp weighs 30lbs or 300lbs, or if a speaker is 3ft tall or 6ft tall? Price is also a measurement, no? I look at measurements to decide how to pair components, but do not solely rely on them in my choosing. After watts, impedance, frequency response, etc are evaluated, the ears take over and the baby is thrown out with the bath water.
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agree
but keep the baby
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Good point. As the head of sales and marketing for two Pro Audio companies, we used to say…
What’s the most important spec?…price.
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We are 100% on this. If like me, you have no engineering or electronics background, it really helps to have a few people who will explain how things work and what matters.
I have a phono DIN=>RCA cable arriving tomorrow. Rather than going to some audio salesman or read BS on the internet, I went to an engineer who has been making cables for 30 years, showed him how it is to be used from the phono stage manual and the phono specifications, and he will do the rest.
I did first have to speak to the phono stage manufacturer, who told me that most cables are not wired this way, most companies have no idea about this stuff and if the cable is the wrong length (it can be too short) you will get a mismatch.
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