Ahhh!!! I was hoping there was a setting buried somewhere. Thanks for the info.
DoP, DSD over PCM, is still DSD but it takes almost twice the bandwidth because its encapsulating DSD into PCM.
DSD native requires the hardware support the very wide sampling rates of the DSD and not much hardware supports this. Additionally, very few drivers support this and some operating systems will not support it at all. This is why DoP exists. The “hardware” thinks its PCM. The DAC sees the DoP header and knows how to unencapsulate the PCM back to DSD.
The reason that device only supports DSD64 is because that’s all that will fit in the 192Khz PCM encapsulation. I forget all the direct mappings but I know you need 768Khz to do DSD256.
Your signal path is still DSD its just reduced to DSD64 to fit within the 192Khz PCM bandwidth supported by that device.
Oh that product sheet is so confusing because the “capabilities” are somewhat dependent on the software being run. It’s “supported file types” are going to be completely dependent on the software you load. That’s also true for the DSD rate since any “local” file needs to be converted down to DSD64 to get it out of the box. Maybe they feel it only has the horsepower to convert from DSD128? That means with something like RoPieee and Roon you could feed it anything since Roon would then send DSD64 or PCM or whatever you configured it for and local cpu limitations go away.
I do like their marketing I don’t like their box 
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Difference in sound quality. What else would you compare by A-B listening?
For streamers that offer the noise reduction features PS Audio claims the AirLens does, it indeed should not matter.
Maybe or apparently for the NAD / BlueSound streamers it does.
The Vault2 + Silent Angle + Cable would have set us back around EUR 2000. I’d say a good reason to do A-B listening. Before forking out that budget for alternative (switch) and added (server) IT equipment.
To my and my wife’s hearing the iMac feeding the streamer sounded more detailed yet not sharp or causing fatigue. Why we heard the difference I don’t know. Everybody’s hearing is different and it was quite remarkable my wife and I heard the same.
We liked the sound served by the iMac better, so there was no reason to invest in the Vault2+new switch+cable.
Added bonuses if the iMac:
- Lower power consumption, the power consumption of the iMac in sleep mode is lower than the consumption of the Vault2. Having the server ready to be engaged (sleep modus) 24/7 49 weeks a year, high energy costs and environmental considerations, this is a decision factor.
- Crazy cool large user display that allows me also to watch Apple Music music videos when streaming AirPlay.
The Vault2 might be for Audio applications, because of the controls on top of it and analog and digital i/o’s. But not necessarily for delivering the cleanest signal on the Ethernet connection.
I expect the signal on the iMac’s Ethernet port is cleaner. The iMac is larger, offers a very rigid aluminum enclosure, data of the harddrive is first buffered in SSD memory (hybrid drive). The iMac is also triple the price and produced in large quantities, this all allows for optimum of components, layout etc. I already owned that iMac for lot of reasons, so it is the best server for my BluOS multi room streaming system.
What do you use for endpoints in other rooms? I am not familiar with BluOS gear. I use various Sonore Rendu models around the house.
I only have BluOS and AirPlay endpoints. They are all streamers, fed with Ethernet cables. We live with a number of people in the house and WiFi needs to be kept free for mobile.
The BluOS technology is integrated in my NAD M33 + Apple TV (living room) and C658 + iMac (home office).
BluOS server software is available for most computer OS platforms. Which is what I chose BluOS on an iMac. The server software has exactly the same user interface and lay out as the control apps, that are available for most mobile devices.
All software is for free with BluOS hardware.
NAD and BlueSound offer completely configured servers: NAD M50.2 and Vault2i.
BluOS has all music streaming services included in the app, besides Apple AirPlay. But all BluOS endpoints I own are AirPlay certified, and I quite like to be able to choose (on the fly, without conflicts) between Apple Music App and BluOS. On the road we utilize Apple AirPlay exclusively. I use BluOS for streaming of local files and internet radio. I have a streaming contract with Apple Music only.
BluOS supports up to 24 bit 192 kHz and MQA extracted / unfolded from that PCM format. No DSD.
Following companies committed to supply now or or near future BluOS endpoints:
- BlueSound
- NAD
- Roksan
- PSB Speakers
- Monitor Audio
- Cyrus
- Peachtree
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BluOS is in Lenbrook brands like NAD and Bluesound. And also some others like Dali’s active speakers. Costs 2-3 times what one can put together hodge-podge with Logitech and Raspberry PI4s for multiroom sound. But it is a lot slicker and can be recommended for non-tinkerers. Though it does not support DSD. I was hoping that DSD-oriented PS Audio would bring an app like the BluOS app with the AirLens. It sounds like the AirLens would also be missing the memory / (noisy?) processing capability to scan in a NAS library though too. Bluesound does support such library scanning. But, again, not for DSD. So my next hope for the AirLens would be that it would support NAA, not just Roon and JRiver, so I could use my HQPlayer… with the upscaling turned off… to feed the AirLens and MKII.
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I chose the hard and software convenience and quite reasonable price of BluOS devices over the lower cost but in many ways attractive Raspberry Pi solutions and much higher cost and better sounding PS Audio Perfect Wafe / Direct Stream solution.
As life is all about compromises, for my situation that is the best compromise taken. Considering that the majority of music I listen to is CD RedBook format or equivalent (ALAC), vinyl and MQA radio (Radio Paradise).
Regarding future investments: I believe in my home office I get much more bang for the bucks upgrading my Yamaha MSP5 active monitors (which sound impressive for the money) to a Rowen / Swiss HD high end set than leaving my Yamaha’s and adding a proper DSD front end to those speakers.
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Yeah I’m trying to have a fully unaltered digital signal path. And as simple as possible
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I get it that Roon is not for everyone. But pretty much every other option out there limits you to hardware and all are lacking in features compared to Roon. Nothing is as flexible and feature rich. And the list of hardware grows every year by leaps and bounds. So many ways to add rooms/zones. Can play any format out there. Can do DSP on any zone in multiple ways.
I think it was smart for PS Audio not to write their own software. What a nightmare that would be to keep up to date on Mac/PC/iOS/Android and of course the few that want Fire-tablet. People outside of IT have no idea what kind of OS Fragmentation that is and how hard it is to test all the various versions and what windows patch just broke your software. Trust me you don’t want to be in that business. Let Roon do it and be happy. Keep making the great hardware. Guess people how use computer software such as jriver can use Airlens still but they made that call not to make own software and I get it.
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Couldn’t agree more. Their core competency is in hardware. They make fabulous top of the line and state of the art hardware. Hardware companies in general really don’t understand how difficult good software is, especially with all the different platforms to support, modes of operation, compatibility with previous versions etc etc. (if you don’t agree that’s fine—please let’s not start a discussion on that here😀)
Roon is a fabulous piece of software. (And one can see all the issues that people have even with this fabulous software by just skimming the forums.). My experience with hardware companies providing their own software—like Lumin for example—is that their solution is way less flexible and user friendly than Roon. Of course, that’s just in my limited experience.
Also I’m not sure there’s that much return on investment if they add their own software. Will they really sell that many more units? Who knows.
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You may find this helpful, you can download a .pdf if you want to.
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Therefore PSA should cooperate with other small firms. Eventually all the users of infrared remote controls will be gone and all customers will be looking at their phones and wondering how to change the volume.
Interesting point. I do think that is the expectation in the future, but even now, I dont use phone for TV. I have both apple and firesticks… They come with remote. Not sure as I have not looked but I know the firestick does not offer phone. Is it nice when its included, yeah for things like deep rooted menu setup, naming inputs etc its nice to have. Anthem for one just has a beta for my AVM 70. But I still pick up remote. its faster and easier. Tactile button right there where thumb is. … Unlock phone, go to app, find vol …which page is that on again? been there done that. In face the remotes are coming with less buttons. Where is my dam previous channel button that miss so much for swapping games on TV.
Not to mention the extra electronics that have to be in the unit to support that app. Do you want the BHK Pre coming with Bluetooth? The audiophile in me says IR is enough. We would have to wait for @Vmax to find where to put the 3M shielding in place to block the EM.
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Innuos is now uPnP enabled and I can use its Sense player app wirelessly in about 10 zones in my house.
I bought Roon, but if I bought Innuos now I would not need Roon. I feel Roon has lost its way bit and become a bit precious and over-complicated.
All but my main system can be used with voice control using Alexa and Amazon HD. It’s only expensive audiophile hifi that requires you to use 20th century IR technology.
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You cannot have features and keep simple. Its a choice in software development. I have a friend who has all his music on a big ol thumb drive. he has zero interest in discovering new music. He does that other ways and then adds to thumb drives (he has one in car too). So he just plugs that into the back of his Marantz and is happy. he laughs at me and Roon. To each his own. If you dont like the features of Roon, or dont use, and you get free app with your server, heck yeah dont buy Roon.
I try the voice control in Alexa, but with half the apps it has no idea what I want. I close the shades, turn lights off and on, but somehow change channel to espn does not work. Alexa integration requires wifi or ethernet and coding. Keep that away from my audiophile system.
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Your diagram helps me a lot with thinking of what I should do next as I move away from a sluggish old Bryston BDP-1 with attached external drives. Just wondering though: If I only want to play music stored on my own NAS, is there any reason to add the AirLens to the path? I’m looking at a Roon Nucleus Plus to handle my large library. Thanks.
Well, as far as I can tell, the AL is mainly for 1) improved SQ through galvanic isolation, clocking, and other improvements and 2) connecting to the DS DAC through i2s so that your digital path is absolutely clean with no resampling or loss. #2 is especially important for DSD.
For me, who has a lot of DSD and am love the DS DAC, I want everything digital to go through the DS DAC. Currently I can’t do that with my Lumin T2 digital transport+DAC (which is wonderful and plays up to DSD512)–it only has SPDIF and USB outputs which are subpar. And I expect that AL will have better SQ than the Lumin because of the attributes I mentioned above.
So if you don’t have a DS DAC or are happy with your current transport/DS DAC combo for what you use it for, you don’t need an AL. Make sense?
To be honest, unless you absolutely want a turnkey system, I’d go the less expensive Roon ROCK on a NUC alternative. It’s USD300-600 (depending on i3/i5/i7), ROCK is free. This combination is a setup-once-and-forget-it solution. Works wonderfully for me; I transitioned from a Mac running Roon core. With the NUC you’ll just need to add a NAS or a DAS–NAS better if you plan on your library getting even larger quickly, such as with DSD256 titles.
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I disagree with your characterization, but to each his own. I don’t want to hijack the AL discussion with this.
Thanks, that does. I do have a DS DAC and at some point will upgrade to Mk. 2. The Bryston is really no longer functional because my library has expanded beyond its capacity to build a database, so I have to move in a different direction. Not thrilled about moving to Roon with its subscription model and apparently somewhat compromised sound quality, but it seems that adding the AL after it might be the perfect ticket as far as best SQ.
Interesting about Roon ROCK on an NUC. Is setting one up a fairly straightforward task?
Very easy; took me about 20 minutes. Check out this guide. The Nucleus is basically a glorified ROCK without the required setup (plus of course on board storage). The main advice I’d give is get a NUC that is supported by Roon.
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