I’ve had the PMG 512 for over 3 weeks playing nearly constantly so 400+ hours of burn in. I haven’t listened critically at different points in time so I have no opinion about whether the DAC changes with burn in. Anyhow, that is not the point of this post.
Tonight for yucks I decided to try the PMG 512 with Qobuz Connect versus using the internal Roon Endpoint. I was surprised to hear what I thought was a fairly significant difference with Qobuz Connect and I preferred Qobuz Connect by quite a bit. Levels seemed to be matched but my SPL meter jumps around enough with pink noise that a ± 0.5 dB difference is certainly possible. I have always discounted reports by people that Qobuz Connect sounds better/different but that seems to be what I heard. Has anybody else performed this test or have an informed opinion about it? The PMG 512 was connected to the internet via a battery powered TP-Link AC750 WiFi Travel Router which has a rather long and positive thread about it on Whatsbestforum.com. The AC750 connected to the PMG 512 with a Sablon 2020 ethernet cable. The tracks I listened to tonight were:
I don’t have a PMG 512 but I do have a DS MKII and I have always heard a massive difference using Qobuz connect over the Qobuz app in my Eversolo streamer. When I reported that in the forum many were incredulous that could be so. Many have stated that they are not impressed by the sound that Roon provides. I’m not a Roon user myself but I don’t doubt that what you are hearing is true.
I tried as you suggested on PMG streamer, and the difference between Roon and Qobuz Connect is much smaller in my system. It probably has something to do with the Roon implementation. The Roon core resides in Grimm MU2 in my case, and I have done extensive noise isolation measures including two Shunyata Omega X ethernet cables and a LHY SW-10 pro switch with internal FO link to block noise. I also use an AQ Dragon PC for the switch and a Stealth The Grande PC for MU2. PMG 512 uses a Stealth CGLE PC too. My PMG is using WiFi. All ICs are Audience FrontRow Reserve XLRs. I also found footers for streaming components make a difference too. In fact, I use Stack AUVA 100 under MU2 because they perform better than their EQ series. I even put Stack EQs under switch and Orbi sat. My head told me there seems to be an improvement but I will fail in blind test for sure.
All these led to my conclusion. There is a tidy difference between Qobuz Connect and Roon playing Qobuz. In fact, I seem to prefer Roon with PMG than Qobuz Connect.
That is one of the great and frustrating things about this hobby, we all seem to prefer different flavors when it comes to audio. IMHO, the idea of The Absolute Sound is a myth.
I was able to borrow my friends MU2 for a couple of weeks to compare to the PMG. Cables weren’t identical. The PMG required 1.5 meter XLRs which I didn’t have in the Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper which is in the rest of my system. I thought the MU2 and PMG sounded fairly different and I suspect most people would prefer the color, density and timbre of the MU2 over the greater sense of transparency, detail and soundstage that I felt the PMG provided but which also left it feeling a bit lean. What I liked about Qobuz Connect is it seemed to provide that richness of the MU2 while maintaining the benefits of the PMG and bringing a greater sense of dynamics than either the MU2 or PMG did running Roon. Anyhow, just my impressions and subject to change with further listening. But I am genuinely interested in what other people hear if they compare Qobuz Connect vs Roon with the PMG.
It took some effort to bring out more detail, dynamic and transparency out of MU2 to match PMGs, and still sounded more relaxed and warmer at the same time (hence expensive cables ). MU2 seems to subject to cable and tweak changes even more so than PMG in my system. That said, PMG still has a deeper and tighter bass, and MU2 has a bit more ease in SQ. But their performances are very close in my system and environment. DAC SQ change in general seems to subject to cable and tweak more, so compare them with the same cable and similar tweaks are crucial. Not surprising in a different system and room the result is quite different as you noticed.
I wish to hear more observations on Qobuz Connect vs Roon from PMG users too, and MU2 does not do Qobuz Connect. the Tidal Connect from MU2 sounded easily worse than Roon. My guess is unless the Roon core resides in a dedicated audiophile component, Qobuz Connect will sound better.
Woke up early as usual, will hit golf course this morning with a tired body.
I played around with Qobuz Connect more and did feel that it was an improvement over Roon using the PMG 512 as the endpoint. I saw a mention on this thread about Maestro and downloaded that and tried to use it, but it wouldn’t play at all on my system and after a couple of hours I gave up on that. It would have been a pretty terrible solution even if it had sounded better since it is limited to PCs and I use an iPad to control the music at my listening position.
The research on Maestro led me to research other playback systems that might operate on the same principle as Qobuz Connect and Maestro, in other words software that simply had the DAC connect to Qobuz directly without and intermediate processing engine. And that is how I discovered JPLAY.
JPLAY is an iOS app that only runs on an iPad or iPhone. It works with Qobuz and Tidal and it also works with your network attached storage once you have your NAS acting as a UPnP server using MinimServer. Installing MinimServer was surprisingly easy and the the free version is more than adequate for my needs. I think you might be able to access your library on a PC using MinimServer but I didn’t research that. It works seamlessly on my Asustor NAS. JPLAY says it will work with any UPnP/DLNA capable DAC connected to the same network. It does see my Gustard DR70 but for some reason it doesn’t see my Eversolo A8 but my guess is it would if I spent a bit of time on that.
So that is a long lead up to what is a fairly big conclusion. JPLAY with the PMG 512 sounds absolutely fantastic. It is very noticeably better than playing music with Roon using the PMG 512 as the endpoint. I literally can’t believe how significant the difference is and how good JPLAY sounds. Even better, I absolutely love the JPLAY interface. It is not as feature or information rich as Roon but it does provide you with quite good artist biographies and a summary/review of quite a few albums which I assume comes from Qobuz and Tidal. And the content from those sources is slightly different and you can switch back and forth if you want a different perspective. It is a much better interface than Innuos Sense which I loathe. The biggest thing I will miss is not being able to cast lyrics to a Chromecast connected TV when I’m playing roon. So when I want that I’ll just have Roon play simultaneously with JPLAY. And after a fairly lengthy process of syncing to my NAS library I now have access to the huge number of albums I have stored there.
JPLAY has a 14 day free trial, a $49 a year subscription, and a $199 lifetime subscription. I’ve been using it for a week and have bought the lifetime subscription. For me it has been a love at first sight situation. I was on the fence about keeping the PMG 512 since the Grimm MU2 bested it in many ways. I had to return the MU2 to my friend before I found JPLAY, but I am confident that I would prefer the PMG 512 with JPLAY to the Grimm MU2.
After reading your post I went over to the JPLAY site for a look. I was surprised to learn that they tie the license to an Apple ID. When I moved countries I had to get a second Apple ID so I now use 2 across iPad, iPhone and MBA. So the product doesnt work for my situation which I am sure is rare. It does seem like an odd choice tho and Roon does no such platform restriction so I will stick with it until Maestro matures.
I don’t have two Apple IDs and I suspect the overwhelming majority of people don’t have multiple Apple IDs. But don’t all Apple subscription based products tie the subscription to that ID? It is kind of like expecting a subscription to NY Times to support multiple log in IDs which it absolutely does not. Roon does tie the Core to a single physical location but you are right, anybody with access to the local network can use Roon without any restrictions. I love that feature when I am visiting a friend who has Roon but it does mean anybody with access to my network could delete all my playlists and settings. Life is compromise!
). MU2 seems to subject to cable and tweak changes even more so than PMG in my system. That said, PMG still has a deeper and tighter bass, and MU2 has a bit more ease in SQ. But their performances are very close in my system and environment. DAC SQ change in general seems to subject to cable and tweak more, so compare them with the same cable and similar tweaks are crucial. Not surprising in a different system and room the result is quite different as you noticed.