PMG 512 vs Grimm MU2 vs Meitner MA3i?

Audio Components DACs
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I’m curious if anyone on here has compared the PMG 512 to the Grimm MU2 with Roon? I’ve had a friend lend me his MU2 and it sounds better than either the Innuos Pulsar or Eversolo A8 going into my Holo May KTE DAC. For those of you who care the Pulsar is better than the A8 but I hate using the Sense software instead of Roon. I have also heard the Meitner MA3i in a different system and it is quite good and supports Roon but I have no idea how it compares.

I am trying to find a cheaper alternative to the MU2 that sounds as good and the PMG 512 with its Roon End Point and built in streamer sounds like it might fit the bill and it has the added benefit of supporting I2S which neither the MA3i or MU2 do and I like to connect my CD Player with I2S.

Has anyone had actual experience comparing these three high end solutions?

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Well, I will know in about two weeks, or three weeks if they are close in SQ.

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See the “PMG DAC 512 First Impressions thread”. Straightwire provided his thoughts on the MU2 vs the PMG DAC. See his comparison in entry # 253. I don’t recall a comparison to the Meitner MA3i but I would be very interested in that one also.

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Hi, I have the Meitner MA3i … which I compared to the PMG. Out of the box, the MA3i was flawless and in my opinion, was just a tad more open and engaging. No regrets here.

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Thanks. I had missed that but Straighwire’s post doesn’t go to the question of how the PMG 512 running Roon compares to the MU2. My main desire is improving the sound I get using Roon as the front end. I know the MU2 does that. And Paul has said the streamer in the PMG 512 is better than his Airlens streamer but I haven’t found specific posts about how it is with Roon.

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Hmm, I suppose I could wait. Which unit is coming?

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I’m using MU2, but will order a PMG512 tomorrow. MU2 has two recent FW updates which in my opinion has elevated its sound quality even more. So, it will be interesting to compare the two in my system.

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Just a note: I’m using Innous Pulsar AND I’m using Roon…why would I have to use Sense software?

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To my ear, the Pulsar sounds better with the Innuos Sense software than it does running as a Roon Endpoint. In my listening there is no benefit to using Roon on the Pulsar vs using the much cheaper and more versatile Eversolo A8 as a Roon Endpoint. So you don’t “have to use Sense” unless you want the best sound but then you give up all the interface benefits of Roon.

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Main reason I’m using Roon is it’s parametric EQ, without it I have horrible sound in my tiny room.

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I have heard the Meitner MA3i at a dealer and liked it better than my present PSA DS MK2 but have not compared it to the PMG 512 or the Grimm MU2. Can you expand on your “open and engaging” comment? E.g by open do you mean bigger soundstage, more detail, or ?, etc. Thanks.

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I found the detail retrieval very similar …. but that the Meitner was more engaging in its presentation. Bigger and more layered. There were no speakers in the room …. just a performance.

These are all fine DACs though (PMG DAC, MU2 & MA3i). I don’t think there’s a bad one in the bunch.

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I think Grimm updated the MU2 2 weeks after his comparison. They must of been waiting for him to get rid of his MU2. :man_facepalming:t2:

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Guilty of being an early adaptor, I guess, be it Grimm or PS Audio. Kudos to both for having updatable DAC architecture. Nothing like a free treat once and a while.

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@straightwire were you ever able to compare the MU2 to the PMG 512 with both using Roon?

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Nope. The PMG was not Roon ready nor did I have a Roon core when the MU2 was in the barn.
As previously stated, the MU2 was compared to the PMG 512 with the PMG Pre and Stealth Sakra LE cable in the chain for both, not a direct comparison per se. I like both but gave the slight edge to the PMG in this setup. Without the Pre and the Steath interconnect, which far exceeds the cost of the MU2 alone, your evaluation could be different.
Based on cost, and the internal Roon core and drive, the MU2 is a value leader, especially as there are several used ones to be had.

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With high-end DACs, you’re really choosing a flavor of great. All testing was done with the PS Audio BHK 250 amp to Sonus Faber Cremona M speakers

DACs tested: DirectStream MK2, PMG 512, Grimm MU2, Hegel D90

DirectStream MK2 – A very musical, reliable DAC that I genuinely enjoyed for years.

PMG 512 – Immediate jump in resolution, soundstage definition, and air over the MK2. A larger jump in improvement than going from MK1 to MK2. I preferred going direct into the amp (removing the BHK preamp). I was instantly impressed with the sound quality. Sadly, ongoing display glitches and daily reboots forced the return of the PMG 512 to PS Audio.

Hegel D90 – Nearly half the price of the PMG, the D90 is a DAC only and required me to use the Airlens and BHK preamp. Coax from the AirLens limited resolution and would require a USB input for higher DSD resolutions. A worthy USB DAC worth auditioning if the MU2 is out of reach.

Grimm MU2 – Expensive upfront, but it replaces a Roon server, streamer, DAC, preamp, and cables. The internal Roon server is rock solid sounded noticeably better than my NUC Roon server using the MU2 as a Roon endpoint. I did find that the MU2 benefits from using the EtherRegen compared to Ethernet direct into the PMG or Airlens. Nice metal remote. Sonically more relaxed and natural than the PMG (by the tiniest of margins), especially with female vocals and acoustic instruments. I found myself listening to full albums rather than skipping songs. This DAC required more burn in time compared to the other DACs.

Meitner MA3i - (and used EMM Labs DV2/DA2 v2) were on my shortlist, but I couldn’t audition them at home. These DACs are known for their relaxed natural almost analog sound. I saw more of these used online compared to used MU2’s which factored in my decision regarding resale value.

Sound Quality (my personal observations):

  • PMG 512 = ultra-defined sound stage, open and airy top end, tuneful and tight bass especially with electronic music. This DAC showed me how much better my system could sound. Too bad there were so many GUI issues on launch without apologies from PS Audio. No doubt I felt let down as a long time PS Audio fan.

  • Grimm MU2 = more organic and relaxed, less “hi-fi," easy long-term listening, wide but not as deep as the PMG in terms of soundstage

  • Hegel D90 = excellent option at lower price point but a smaller step up from the MK2 than the other options I tested.

  • All of these DACs are excellent, and sound differences fall into the listener’s taste with their system and room.

In my room, with my gear and my musical tastes, I ended up jumping on the Grimm MU2 bandwagon. Especially as a lifetime Roon user, this is a fantastic all-in-one solution. My wife loved going from four components to one. I had to swallow my pride that “separates are better” and “big heavy toroidal transformers are best.” A good digital front end really impacts the overall sound and just gets out of the way of the music.

Here are some songs I used to evaluate female vocals and acoustic instruments.

Tina Dickow - Room with a View

Music Nuda - Dindiandi

Emiliana Torrini - Autumn Sun

Lisa Ekdahl - Now or Never

Enjoy the music!

Rob

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Thanks for the detailed review on these DACs, and my PMG512 will be here tomorrow. I expect it will sound as great as MU2 but offers a different taste.

However, I am using a Stealth CGLE power cord for PMG512, and use a SRA Takshaka PC for MU2. Also, the Roon core is inside MU2, and MU2 is connected to the switch by ethernet plus Muon Pro filter. I plan to use PMG streamer with WiFi so I can use Roon. Therefore, there are too many variables to give a fair comparison.

Compared Stealth CGLE to Takshaka PC at MU2 in my system. I will go back to your fist sentence “you’re choosing a flavor of great”. They both are at top level which will bring out the best from any component. For folks who buy these types of PC, they may reach various conclusions from their likely highly-resolved systems. I will not say one is better than the other.

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Thank you Rob! I have been looking for someone to make specific sonic comparisons between the MKII and PMG DACs for some time. I’ve been a fan of the MKII since I put it in. Your comments lead he think that I should consider the PMG DAC at some point. Sounds intriguing.

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Thanks for that great comparison of those DACs. I’m guessing that since you were using an earlier version of the PMG 512/Firmware you weren’t listening to it with Roon as the front end?