RCA vs XLR

Audio Components
41

Same issues. Cartridges are indeed balanced by nature but converted to single end 99.9% of the time. But, the balanced conversions will ONLY help if the headamp is a truly balanced circuit, and not a single end circuit. So you are correct, you need to see if the input is a BALANCED circuit with XLR’s wired treu balanced with the RCA being a cheater plug input (PIN 2 is the center pin of the RCA and PIN 1 is the ground). If it is a single end circuit by design, keep the phono leads unbalanced and use RCAs.

Best,
Galen Gareis

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42

My brother told me how much better the Decware made his analog system sound so I went over to check it out myself. We were listening when the doorbell rang. I didn’t even hear it since we were playing quite loud on a drum passage. My brother faintly heard it and answered. It was the mailman and he said he was ringing the bell for a long time and asked if we were playing the drums in the house. The delivery was the Jensen my brother ordered. Oh boy, now we can compare it to the Decware, but wait, they send the wrong Jensen. It was RCA in and XLR out, the opposite of what he ordered. Shoot!!! He has to send it back. Anyway, at least I heard what the Decware is doing in my brother’s setup. In a word astounding!!! I don’t know how the Decware can change the sound so much even though we were adding a box and another cable in the process. , but the clarity and presence and detail was much more pronounced with the Decware. Of course he had to turn down the level to mach the RCA.
Now I understand why he wanted to buy another one for his digital.We also try it on the digital side and same results. Now he is thinking about returning the Jensen and just get another Decware instead, even if it does cost a little more. Why compromise because of cost.

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43

I’m glad you got to experience that. The Decware ZBIT really is a wonderful product. . . . I imagine it is better than the Jensen unit, but have never compared them. I agree that it would be a great thing to have another ZBIT from Decware. The only drawback is. . . a long wait for it to be built. I have only seen one go up for sale used in the last 18 months. . . and luckily I bought it for my other system. . . .:wink:

Whatever you do, don’t let him try the Decware ZROCK2. Because he’ll have to have two of those as well!

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44

“And as @owlsalum mentioned, just because a component has XLR inputs/outputs, does not mean that it is truly balanced (fully differential).” = No, I talked to Primare about my Primare A34.2’s on how to use/bi-amp them and they said that I should bridge my two Primare A34.2’s and run each amp to its own loudspeaker since they became fully balanced then like their bigger A60 power-amp so there are differences in how things get “balanced”.

45

My understanding is that XLR was designed for longer runs, especially in pro audio situations. Thus with shorter runs, maybe up to a couple of meters or so, the idea that XLR is better is not true. In fact, a number of top quality audio companies will tell you that their unbalanced ouputs are just as good as the balanced ones with their gear, and some say RCA is in fact better. My hunch is that the higher output voltage of some balanced circuits vs. unbalanced has led to the belief that they are better in general.

46

Maybe it depends on which brand is your component. But I know for sure I can hear the Advantages of XLR in the Esoteric C-02 preamp and the Esoteric A-02 power amp. Using a 1 meter WW Platinum Eclipse 8 RCA and a 1 meter WW Platinum Eclipse 8 XLR connected at the same time since Esoteric has both RCA and XLR outputs on preamp and power amp, it was easy to switch between the two with the flip of the switch on the back of the power amp. The volume does not change between these outputs so volume is the same RCA or XLR. But definitely XLR has more resolution and better sounding. My brother heard it too since it was his RCA cable I borrowed to do this shootout.
Maybe another brand might not have the same result depending on their design, but some brands do take advantage in designing true balance in their products and you can hear it, ands it’s not just not lowering of noise.
We can hear this difference between the DS and preamp also. We did adjust the volume because of the difference of 6db, but it doesn’t matter. Even when we turn up the RCA with a little more volume than XLR, the XLR still sound clearer.
Like I said, not in all components does XLR sounds better, but some do without a doubt. Once you hear it, you cannot go back.

47

XLR is better over any distance because it negates signal interferance and noise on the line. So yes, even at short distances, balanced will give a purer signal even if it’s minute interference that can’t be heard, it will still be there on RCA.

If an RCA Connector sounds better than an XLR on the same piece of equipment, it’s because the XLR isn’t truly balanced.

So long as the signal path is truly balanced which you would expect the buyer to know before purchase, then there is no argument. It’s just basic electronics.

In the same way that you would assume that people wouldn’t use analogue connectors for a digital source.

48

I am not sure the foundation of this statement, but it is not factual. See @rower30 posts further up the thread.

With regard to my experience, I have a truly balanced (full differential) chain and this is not the case in my system. My monoblocks have both unbalanced and balanced inputs. The balanced inputs use high quality Jensen transformers and are therefore truly balanced. WIth my photon (non-metallic) interconnects where noise is abolished and not transmitted on the cable (even with unbalanced), I prefer RCA which has no transformers in the signal path.

This all said, I run balanced out from my DS DAC to my pre-amp due to the low voltage of the unbalanced outputs. From my pre-amp to amps, I run RCA (unbalanced) where voltage is not an issue.

50

Lampi and Lampi dac users say the unbalanced is just as good as the balanced (and two tubes cheaper). I just have unbalanced ones, so can’t tell the difference. If you read Supratek developer Mick Maloney’s blog, he finds his dac’s unbalanced outs better than his balanced ones, though he provides both for the same price. OTOH, with the DSD going directly to balanced active speakers I found the balanced outs were a little better, although it was hard to get the output exactly the same. Going via an unbalanced tube preamp to the speakers, I’ve got no complaints about the RCA outputs. So I guess it depends.

51

I have used Mick’s preamp with both outputs and don’t find a difference in sound quality in my applications.

52

Good to hear, because I’ll be needing the balanced outs for my main speakers

53

Key is a low CUB, capacitance-unbalance in the XLR and low shield DCR in RCA.

CUB will cause differential to common mode noise. An XLR share equal and opposite voltages. So let’s say -2 volts and 2 volts signal. That’s a 4 volt potential. If we add external common mode “noise” (same “common” voltage gets onto both wires) we see;

2 volt signal +1 volt noise= 3V on one wire.
-2 volt signal +1 volt noise = -1V on the other wire.
or…
2 volt signal -1 volt noise = 1V on one wire.
-2 volt signal -1 volt noise = -3V on the other wire.

So we still see a 4V potential “difference”. As long as noise is the SAME on each wire it will be removed and we see the same potential signal between the wires. That’s how it is supposed to work.

If we have CUB induced common to differential mode converison, we see a different outcome;

DIFFERENTIAL MODE NOISE, equal but opposite on each wire, noise is not “equal” between the two wires;
2V signal + 1V noise = 3V
-2V signal -1V noise =-3V
6 V potential, should be 4V.
or
2V signal -1V noise= 1V
-2V signal +1V noise = -1V
2 V potential, should be 4V.

Anything that upsets the “common” mode noise will yield a different potential voltage signal between the wires other than what it is supposed to be.

COMMON MODE NOISE, same noise voltage on each wire;
2V signal + 1V noise = 3V
-2V signal + 1V noise = -1V
Or 4 volts potential.
or
2V signal -1V noise = 1v
-2V signal -1V noise = -3v
or 4 volt potential

DIFFERENTAIL Mode Noise, opposite noise voltage on each wire;
2V signal -1V Noise= 1V
-2V signal +1V Noise = -1V
Or 2 Volts potential difference, should be 4V.
or
2V signal +1V noise = 3V
-2V signal -1V noise = -3V
or 6 volts potential, should be 4V.

We need the exact SAME “noise” on each wire in an XLR for it to work correctly removing noise.

RCA need low INDUCED noise through the SHIELD DCR. The signal is referenced to GROUND. We don’t have differental to common mode conversions problems. Current is set by the shield DCR and E=I times R so the noise voltage induced is directly proportional to the shield DCR. Keep that low and the noise induced is low.

The lower an RCA shield DCR is, the quieter the cable.

Try to MATCH the I/O tech between two component, balanced or unbalanced. The circuit boards are one or the other natively.

Generally speaking for noise;
XLR is how NOISE is kept “common” to each wire and how pefectly differential the signal is on each wire.
RCA is how low the shield DCR is and the circuit ground resistance difference between two components that generates the shield current.

Best,
Galen Gareis

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