Frode said
What I was saying was that one design consideration could be to install a solid state relay (surface mount on PCB) engaged by the source VBUS +5V and run an internal DS signalling via the said relay dry contact. This should be quite resilient towards any noise contamination propagated over the VBUS line.
That is fine and dandy, but what about the other the two cables (D+ and D-) that connect the computer directly to the DAC?
Could this be solved in a similar way (or an Uptone LPS-1 could be built in the receiving end ).
Also, my comment basically was for the DS that doesn’t need to drain power from the USB source.
Ted Smith said
If you mean solid state relay in the normal way (no-liquids or gasses involved) that's what's there :) If you mean surface mount mechanical relay then the needed USB signaling would be broken. High frequency crap (i.e. the 1/2 Gig and up on USB 2.0) is both radiated and conducted by the parasitic capacitances of many components and their mounting.
Don’t get me wrong, it is possible to do better, but most of the obvious ways have a price.
That’s part of the price I was talking about, still they don’t have any protection against the RF radiating from one side to the other - which is the majority of the problem in the DS. FWIW at a more expensive price than the DS I have some good ideas on what to do… There are a lot of choices for digital isolation chips and not all of them are created equal. The JCAT uses one of the cheapest available (not that I’m slamming their product, doing good digital isolation on USB is a non-trivial task.)
SUPER happy with the Bridge 2. I loved the mRendu too and if I didn’t have the Bridge 2 I could easily live with the mRendu. But having both was silly so after testing both and feeling both are on par (i.e. both phenomenal) I parted ways with my mRendu and LPS-1
While i let my ears make the decision I also put trust in Paul’s belief that the DSD’s Bridge I2S connection is better overall than the USB input connection.
Plus if I understand Ted’s explanations well, the master reclocker of the DSD makes any prior reclocking redundant? Have I got that right?
Many thanks in advance. A very happy DSD Sr and Bridge 2 user here
Sorry to revive this topic but I am thinking of getting the upcoming ultraRendu or a Bridge II.
While it isn’t a direct comparison, how would you say the Bridge II differs from the LPS1 powered microRendu? Which would you say gives a fuller, warmer sound?
Yacheah, I honestly think you have to change a major part of your setup or have to eliminate bad influences to your setup, as I guess all such small changes (i.e of the streaming device, firmware etc) don’t have the effect you look for, even if they should go in the right direction.
Sorry to revive this topic but I am thinking of getting the upcoming ultraRendu or a Bridge II.
While it isn’t a direct comparison, how would you say the Bridge II differs from the LPS1 powered microRendu? Which would you say gives a fuller, warmer sound?
Thanks
I had a Bridge II, sold it and got a microRendu and now I’m going back to a Bridge II.
The ultraRendu will no doubt be another step up, but then you need to find the right USB and get the LPS-1. I never wanted to believe USB cables sounded different but in my observations the different shielding and grounding methods and whether they meet USB spec of 90 ohms, really makes a difference - just my personal observations.
I’m going back to Bridge II and BJC Cat6 and done with tweaking. Until the next wave of ethernet signal regeneration devices comes.
FWIW I compared the BII to the LPS-1 & Microrendu combo and found it too hard to call in terms of SQ. I felt at the time they were neck and neck for SQ but the support for cover art display swung it in favour of the BII. The BII is also less expensive.
Factor in the upcoming MQA support and the BII wins easily on paper at least.
The unknown is obviously what the ultraRendu brings to the table in terms of SQ. Personally I doubt I’ll make the upgrade to the UltraRendu as the upgrades described sound incremental rather than game changing. But the Sonore team haven’t revealed the full details yet.
The BII vs a Microrendu & LPS-1 & quality USB cable - well for me at least the BII wins that.
Whether the UltraRendu swings that decision the other way is something we won’t know for sure for a while.
While it isn’t a direct comparison, how would you say the Bridge II differs from the LPS1 powered microRendu? Which would you say gives a fuller, warmer sound?
Couple days ago I added the new Uptone ISO Regen to my USB chain (uRendu in MPD/DLNA mode>ISO Regen/both powered by their LPS-1) with Lumin iOS control app, was surprised sq now betters my BridgeII. Now if Roon mode just sounded as good. Wouldn't say it's warmer but in my rig it has more clarity and with Huron just stellar sound.
I don’t have Bridge II yet and recently got a Singxer SU-1 to feed the DS using I2S. The SU-1 is fed from the microRendu which acts like a Roon endpoint. I have computer (similar to a NUC) running ROCK. The setup sounds fabulous with the Huron.
ultraRendu is due release very soon and similarly priced to Bridge II. I don’t know if it would be an improvement over what I currently have in the chain because of the SU-1. However, I am interested in simplifying my setup with less clutter/devices without sacrificing the sound quality one bit.
I hear you about the desire to simplify the setup. Back of my rack is starting to look like an Amazon warehouse!
Personally I think the SU-1 is a great bit of kit for the money and will be hard to beat for SQ. Also I2S is the best input for the DS as commented by Ted.
I feel the SU-1 beat the BII for SQ. Posted my experiences here:
If your SU-1 is still on the stock power supply then I really the Kitsune conversion kit to allow you to power it by the Uptone Audio LPS-1. This takes the SU-1 to a whole new level. Yup, one more box on the rack (the LPS-1) but defo worth it for sheer SQ.
Other route if you are determined to simplify and remove the SU-1 would be to replace it with Uptones ISO Regen. It’s tiny compared to the SU-1 and does a great job with the USB from the Microrendu. Though it also shines with an LPS-1.
Not sure exactly how much of an improvement the ultraRendu will bring to table. But it’s not on my shopping list currently as the SU-1 is doing such a terrific job.
Thanks Alan. I am currently powering the SU-1 with LPS-1 and it brings quiet an improvement over the stock. The only other way to lift the sq of SU-1 more is to replace the 3.3v regulator on the main board. Any improvement, if at all with the ultraRendu, might be a subtle one. I guess we are all trying to find ways to get the best signal possible going to DS.
How does the galvanic isolation of Toslink theoretically improve sound?
Also, my source is a MacBook Pro which is known to be noisy, am I correct to assume toslink galvanic isolation helps to mitigate a noisy MacBook? Or does the isolation do something else?
Galvanic isolation breaks ground loops. Any loop of wire (e.g. two components plugged into your walls and connected by interconnects, or whatever) make a loop. That loop, by physics, will have a circulating current induced by the magnetic fields going thru it (sort of like a one turn transformer.) Those fields come from any currents flowing in the area, power cords, other interconnects, etc. as well as from wi-fi, cell phones, wireless phones, etc. That hash will directly show up in any audio signal that goes over an unbalanced connection. Balanced connections can allow canceling out much of the loop currents (those that affect both sided of the differential circuit the same will be subtracted out.)
An other thing that affects the amount of current in a loop is it’s area. For example plugging one component into one outlet and another into a physically separated outlet will cause a much larger loop than using two outlets closer together.
In your system as a whole there are many groundloops and each one is an antennae for all of the electromagnetic noise in your system/house that goes thru that loop.
High frequency hash can cause a hardness to the sound, 60 Hz AC power can show up as hum, etc.
The best thing to do is to break groundloops entirely, e.g. using optical cables where they work for you. Next best is to use balanced connectors (and even balanced components) when ever possible. The third is to use low impedance connections from all of your equipment to a common ground point. E.g. heavier wires from ground lugs on your components.
This Supra Toslink Cable claims to be guaranteed for 32 bit/ 384 kHz. I have a DSJ bought last summer. Is the DSJ able to do that with such a cable? Or is the DSJ inherently limited to 24/192 via Toslink?
It depends on how the PSU is implemented - linear supplies that are designed for a two blade AC plug MAY be completely isolated. Units that are designed with a ground pin on the AC line probably have many things connected to it’s ground.
But it’s almost impossible with most audio gear to not have groundloops - and you don’t want to start defeating the safety grounds. Optical connections, balanced connectors, etc. can help mitigate them a lot.
Since all non-I2S inputs are limited to 192k by spec the FPGA code assumes that to be the case. In theory a software update could raise the software bandwidth limit, but so many other things would have to work well while exceeding their spec that it’s not worth the extra coding.
