When I recently upgraded to an NAS server, AirLens, and a Stellar Gold DAC, I was changing from using my MacBook Pro via USB directly to a DAC. I think there have been significant audible improvements, so that’s good. Now I’m running Roon on the MacBook and I don’t like it. It’s slow, clumsy in terms of navigation, and has several bugs I just don’t like. I’m thinking Audirvana is pretty much a direct competitor, but is it? Here are a few questions:
Will it run the AirLens just as well as Roon? I think I read something about drivers for the Stellar DAC, but I’m assuming my concern is only whether it interfaces well with the AirLens?
I do like how Roon pulls from several resources, like Allmusic, to provide information on the artist, Credits (including producers, engineers, mixers, etc.) - does Audirvana do this? Better or not as well?
Any bugs about Audirvana you’ve noticed?
I’m on my second marriage and when people ask me whether no. 2 is better than no. 1, I say, “I traded one set of problems for another.” And it’s true - there are about as many things I liked or disliked in both. So if Audirvana is just as good or bad, why change?
OK, I can save you a little time responding: I did read a review and found that Audirvana does pull info from various sources. But the reviewer also claims that Audirvana SOUNDS better. How is that possible? I thought these apps did nothing to process the digital signal unless you WANT them to, via DSP, EQ, etc. Part of why I got out of managing my library via Apple Music (iTunes) – I was using a little plug-in called BitPerfect to bypass anything Apple might be doing – was to truly have the data from my NAS server or streaming service sent unaffected to the AirLens. What gives?
You just touched a big can of worms. Yes, there is people that swear by the difference in sound quality of digital players, residing in the same hardware.
I, myself, am in the same position: if it is bit perfect, then it is bit perfect.
I have been a Roon user and lifetime subscriber for many years and enjoy using it. As for speed, it would depend on your computer, set up and how many albums/tracks you have.
I am currently running Roon on the newest Mac mini with a M4 chip and a separate 4TB SSD. Between Qobuz and my own collection, I have currently have 5,700 albums and 82K+ tracks. I do not find Roon slow or clumsy at all. Also, I do not use any of the DSP settings. I have an AirLens streamer into my MK2 DAC. I am very pleased with how it sounds.
I tried using Audirvana years ago, so I could not comment on how it works or sounds today.
Did you by chance prioritize that Roon program thread over others running in the background?
Alternatively, you could investigate running Roon on your Nas (if you also have (small) SSDs and some extra Ram installed). That works fine for me.
As for sound differences, it might be useful to know that running extra services, like DSP or time delay, is processor heavy and induces additional signal interference. Noticeably affecting sound quality.
I have run Roon for 4 years now on a dedicated headless 2012 Mac Mini that’s been optimized just for Roon. I’ve had Zero performance issues related to Roon and to me the SQ is fantastic (via DSD MK2).
I gave Audirvana a good chance. But it had a fatal bug for me. If your DSD library is larger the a not very big number, it could no longer read your library. PCM only for me I guess. But I have a substantial DSD library I couldn’t access. Who cares what it sounds like under those circumstances.
I tell you what, it seemed nice to listen to. That “interface” though, headache world. Bah!
Roon on the other hand is wonderful. It offers so much more than playing your songs. It also is easy to listen to.
I am going to guess the largest problem with Roon for most people, is the cost. I got in for $499 for life quite a few years back. I am guessing if that deal was still available, fewer folks would ask about comparisons. It’s entirely possible someone can actually hear a difference. Thankfully I can’t.
Euphony now, whoa!! In their prime, they were doing great things. The company changed hands, and development lagged. Pink Faun bought the right to modify and use Euphony Code. Euphony had a program called “Stylus” which offered Roon like sophistication, but no Roon involved. People spoke of Stylus and Audirvana the same way. Many thought each was a pleasant step up. I wasn’t so sure.
Anyway, Pink Faun developed an entire OS, based on Euphony code. They analyzed Roon carefully to determine what aspects of the program was harming the sound. They left the bad parts out. They merged the two and made a version of Roon that sounds as good as Stylus. But Stylus alone is still an option.
I have a Pink Faun server I haven’t used in years. I am going to plug that thing in and see what this new OS is all about.
Funny thing, as Euphony declined, other software with similar goals popped up. There has to be 200 choices of OS we can choose from. Fun!
Good question. Aside from power supply, fan, and wifi/bluetooth removal mods, I ran through all running services and apps and disabled non-essential features etc. Software tweaks were intended to boost performance to allow Roon all the resources available.
Hi, replying to both you and @McRican, it’s not that Roon really runs slowly when I’m searching or playing. It is really slow in updating its catalog of my NAS drive content. And maybe there’s nothing that could be done about that - the amount of data it has to go through and retrieve is astronomical, I’m sure.
The Mac I use is getting on the old side - won’t run the newest OS. And this is part of why I upgraded to a NAS system, rather than through the Mac’s USB. I wanted the Mac’s performance to have as little as possible effect on the data. So I use it only to run Roon and Qobuz, once in a while Apple Music if there’s something not available in other places, which I have to run via USB.
This is exactly the argument that pushed me away from Apple Music. I sent several requests on Apple’s forum for feedback on how bit-perfect their data is once it gets to my DAC. I could never get any confirmation - my suspicion is that since 99.9% of Apple Music listeners could care less, Apple “tweaks” the sound to conform to what most people like. That’s why I installed the aptly-named Bit-Perfect application that only uses iTunes as a “controller” and Bit-Perfect routes the data from the drive to the DAC. Qobuz DOES confirm bit-perfect simplicity. I just read that Qobuz is coming out with a system called Qobuz Connect that will supposedly connect the Qobuz app directly to the AirLens. I got a preview version, but it’s not working yet. If I can get that working, I wonder if there’s an app that will simply run my NAS to push its data to the AirLens? I don’t need all the artist info, recommendations, keeping track of what I love…
If Roon or Audirvana are “processing” the data in any way, as opposed to simply passing it through, then I’m back to wondering whether I’m getting truly bit-perfect. My understanding, from previous posts, is that Roon tells the AirLens to get the data directly from the NAS - without going through Roon, but maybe that’s not totally true.
What a great overview, thanks! I guess I have more research to do. Wish I hadn’t jumped the gun and bought a year of Roon before evaluating other products more. As I was saying in another Reply, if Qobuz can communicate directly with my AirLens, then streaming is taken care of. If there is a simple app that can tell my NAS drive to send its data directly to the AirLens, then I’d be done.
Minim server is s simple lightweight DLNA audio server, there is likely a package for your NAS?
I run it on my ageing Synology NAS (11 years old) and it runs fine (and works).
I don’t use it much as I mostly use Logitech Media Server running on a Pi4b and picoreplayer based streamer endpoints (Pi 3b plus and Pi 4 b) and that works better than I could possibly hope for (and it is free).
Are you running Roon on traditional hard drives on your nas, instead of on SSDs?
I’m running their latest version on SSDs and folder scanning (150k+ music files) takes less than a minute. Much less than previous versions.
I have that particular problem as well when updating/rescanning my NAS drive content. It is a bit faster when scanning the same (duplicate) content on the secondary local MAC hard drive.
From Google Gemini:
Roon can be bit-perfect. Here’s how:
Bit-Perfect Playback: Roon is designed to offer bit-perfect playback of both PCM and DSD audio formats. This means that the digital audio data is transmitted to your audio output device exactly as it is, without any alteration.
Exclusive Mode: To ensure bit-perfect output, Roon allows you to enable an “Exclusive Mode” for your audio zone settings. When this mode is active, Roon takes exclusive control of your audio device, preventing other applications or the operating system from interfering with the audio stream.
Signal Path: Roon provides a “Signal Path” display that visually shows the journey of your audio signal from the source to your output. This feature allows you to confirm that the signal remains “lossless” (indicated by a purple dot) and that no processing is being applied that would compromise bit-perfect playback.
RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport): When using Roon Ready devices, Roon’s proprietary RAAT protocol ensures high-resolution, bit-perfect streaming.
However, it’s important to note that bit-perfect playback can be affected if:
DSP (Digital Signal Processing) is enabled: Any DSP functions within Roon, such as volume leveling, EQ, upsampling, or room correction, will alter the original audio data and thus result in non-bit-perfect playback.
The output device or its drivers perform processing: Even if Roon is set to bit-perfect, the connected audio device or its drivers might apply their own processing.
In summary, Roon is capable of bit-perfect playback, and it’s a key feature for audiophiles seeking the highest fidelity. To achieve it, you need to ensure that Exclusive Mode is enabled for your audio zone and that all DSP functions within Roon are turned off.