SACD DSD layer Playback


#1

Hi Paul @adminpaul

I’m the very happy owner of a DSD Snr and looking forward to adding the Memory Player next year.

I was just listening to Dark Side of The Moon SACD on dad’s system (Oppo 105 Bluray Player and Denon 4520 Receiver).

Of course as a transport and Dac they don’t compare to the Memory Player and DSD Snr but I saw a video of yours where you mentioned the Memory Player will, ‘for the first time’ allow play back of the DSD layer.

I could be wrong but it appears my dad’s current system allows this. On the Oppo he needs to use HDMI-2 for DSD output (I’m guessing that’s the HDMI port that’s protected/encrypted/licensed) and his Denon needs to be in ‘Direct’ mode to allow direct DSD-to-analogue conversion, by-passing any PCM conversion.

I just wanted to ask, how this playback of the DSD layer on his system is different to the Memory Player + DSD Snr combination, in terms of ‘world’s first’. I very probably (most likely) didn’t understand the ‘world’s first’ part of your Memory Player video.

I hope this doesn’t come across in the wrong tone (sometimes people misinterpret tone in emails and forums etc). I’m a SUPER happy PS Audio customer here. Basically my dad thinks his system can already do everything ! lol

Apart from the quality of devices (there’s no comparison of course) what is the Memory Player + DSD Snr doing better and differently, specifically in terms of accessing the DSD layer of an SACD?

Appreciated in advance :slight_smile:

Some photos attached


#2

Ok just did some more reading (should have done this first lol).

“The protected DSD layer of SACD has long been available only through D/A converters built in to players and a few receivers and surround processors. These internal D/A processors, while adequate, were never capable of playing back stored music at the quality and performance levels enjoyed by mastering engineers. Now, with the introduction of PS Audio’s revolutionary new memory player, DMP, owners of our DirectStream series of DACs can uncover all that they have been missing. Based on a proprietary handshake protocol between DMP and PS Audio DACs, through our advanced I²S interface, pure DSD is streamed to, and processed in, the same reference quality DAC used by mastering engineers.”

So the DSD Snr is the first external DAC that Sony has allowed to play the raw DSD layer, and only from the DS Memory Player via I2S, if I now understand it correctly.

I guess this will make dad happy that his receiver is one of those few out there, that’s mentioned above lol


#3

I think your original post was correct. Sony does allow digital output of SACD’s via the HDMI connector, and the Oppo units can do this when set up appropriately. Note that this is not the same as the DS, which uses an I2S input with data delivered over a customized HDMI connection. (The plug is standard HDMI hardware, but the wiring is redefined by PS audio.)


#4
magister said I think your original post was correct. Sony does allow digital output of SACD's via the HDMI connector, and the Oppo units can do this when set up appropriately. Note that this is not the same as the DS, which uses an I2S input with data delivered over a customized HDMI connection. (The plug is standard HDMI hardware, but the wiring is redefined by PS audio.)
Thanks mate, I probably caused confusion because I went in a big circle.

I understand the differences in how they’re delivered (HDMI and I2S) but I couldn’t understand ‘the world’s first’ part regarding extracting the raw DSD layer to a DAC, since dad’s system already does it.

But I misunderstood, because ‘the world’s first’ part concerns external Dacs (i.e. the DSD Snr in conjunction with the Memory Player), which I realised after I read the PS Audio site properly.

My misinterpretation of a video I saw of Paul explaining the Memory Player made me scratch my head when listening to dad’s system, where I was thinking ‘hang on, isn’t this already playing the DSD layer without PCM conversion?’.

But yes, the PS Audio site already says some receivers already have this capability (like the Denon 4520 and others) so that cleared up my confusion.

And before anyone jumps out, I know the PS Audio way of extracting the DSD layer of music is above everyone else ! :slight_smile:


#5

In all fairness DCS and Esoteric make very good DSD DACs and Transports as well with their own proprietary connections.


#6
magister said I think your original post was correct. Sony does allow digital output of SACD's via the HDMI connector, and the Oppo units can do this when set up appropriately. Note that this is not the same as the DS, which uses an I2S input with data delivered over a customized HDMI connection. (The plug is standard HDMI hardware, but the wiring is redefined by PS audio.)
Yes and to add some further clarity. Even my Marantz home theater processor plays the DSD layer of an SACD through the standard HDMI output of the Oppo or any other SACD player so enabled.

The problem is when these players use an HDMI connection the output of the SACD player remains encrypted. It can only be decrypted for playback by a Sony authorized chip, inside the receiver or preamp or processor. These Sony authorized chips have analog outputs - meaning the DAC is built into the chips.

Other than crazy expensive player/DAC solutions like DcS, our product is the only under $10K solution that sends unencrypted pure DSD to an external DAC of high quality. Thus, the claim “you have yet to hear what on the SACD layer.” I am not knocking (too hard) the Sony authorized DAC chips, but they sure ain’t a DirectStream!


#7

“Other than crazy expensive player/DAC solutions like DcS, our product is the only under $10K solution that sends unencrypted pure DSD to an external DAC of high quality. Thus, the claim “you have yet to hear what on the SACD layer.” I am not knocking (too hard) the Sony authorized DAC chips, but they sure ain’t a DirectStream!”

I beg to differ from you. McIntosh’s MCT450+D1000 also does the exactly same thing that DMP does for SACD. When one connects MCT450 to D1000 DAC through their proprietary DIN connection it can send unencrypted pure DSD to the D1000 DAC for playing the SACD layer. However, I have not listened to this combo so cannot comment on the quality of the sound.

However, apart from this combo from McIntosh and DMP+DS combo I have neither heard of anything similar below $10K price range.

Regards,

Sourav


#8

Oops. You’re right. Thanks. I forgot about the McIntosh.


#9

I’ve just got my DirectStream Memory Player and I’ve immediately run into an issue with it: apparently, it doesn’t play the DSD layer of SACD’s.

The player has got the latest firmware (1.94) and it’s connected to the PS Audio DirectStream DAC (running Torreys 1.8.8) with the PS Audio supplied HDMI cable, from I2S front of the player to I2S #1 of the DAC.

IMHO, it’s a plain vanilla setup, but still the system can’t play the DSD layer, it keeps using PCM 88.4. Checked everything, tried 5 or 6 different SACD’s, turned off and back on both units… no joy

What am I missing?

Ideas, anybody?


#10

Go to the setup screen and choose SACD Mode: SACD Stereo. You get there by touching the 3 dots in the upper right corner of the home screen then the arrow in the upper right corner. This should do the trick.


#11

Contact customer service. It is an “ID” problem that can be resolved by their entering a code while the unit is connected to the internet.


#12

All good advice. If choosing SACD Stereo doesn’t work, then it’s likely that the DAC isn’t being recognized. All can easily be addressed. We’re here to help.


#13
Posted in error. Content deleted.

#14

Playing my 2nd Dead can dance sacd and the dmp starting skipping or loosing data on track 4 anybody have this disc or experience


#15

PSAF, I have the full set and they all played fine. Make sure there aren’t any scratches, debris, or smudges on the disc.