The result I find most interesting is toe-in. One might expect it to be speaker dependent, yet I’ve found over years of playing with toe-in with multiple brands and types of loudspeakers I achieve the best overall tonal balance and soundstage by aiming a bit behind my listening position. Consistently. No explanation to offer.
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Oh I am so patient, don’t worry… since a week I’m enjoying the set up process quite meticulously. It’s part of the journey and I’m having a lot of fun!
Laser, tape and measurements are my daily food for a while!
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Method for box speakers. Divide the width of your room by 14, multiply by 3 and move the speakers that distance from the side walls. (Magico method) Now, move the speakers so they are 20% (most methods suggest 20-33%) into the room from the front wall. Take the distance between the tweeters and multiply by 1.2 (Jim Smith method) and place the listening chair there. Toe in with a laser so they hit a point 2 feet behind your listening chair. (Magico) Now experiment with the 20% adjusting to 25% and adjusting seat position and the toe in each time. Is it better? Yes, try 30%, no, move it back. Try 35% too. You get the point. Accuracy matters! This method won’t just get you in the ballpark, but put you on the pitcher’s mound. Then you can fine tune from there…
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It’s good they gave you the baseline. You don’t see that with many others.
Hmm. I’ve always found most Magico speakers not to my liking. I wonder if their setup technique has anything to do with it?
Maybe, I have been a Magnepan and Apogee owner most of my life. The A5 is my first box speaker since the Vandersteen 2Ce in the 80’s. I used this method and it worked pretty well. I’m tweaking now…
Also, my room is treated with bass traps in the corners, absorbers at the first reflection points and diffusion behind the speakers…
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Good treatment setup! Mine is very similar (although not done yet).
Luca. We have similar setups as well as similar sized rooms unless your remodeling involves moving walls.
Speaker to speaker 8 ft.
Speaker to listening position 8 ft.
Toe in towards the back wall behind the listening position. About 2 ft each side from the listening position.
Sounds pretty decent to me.
Looking to upgrade the amplifiers and add some room treatment. I am looking forward to getting the XA 60.8’s. They should be in about a weeks time.
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Yes, so similar systems (and room dimensions, too). Until your Pass Labs amps arrive… so curious to read your comments soon. Have fun!
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Currently, Y = about 85% of X in my set up and the nature of my “tweeters” is such that I prefer having them fire straight ahead.
FWIW.
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Luca, nice speaker poll arrangement!
Of course, final listening room setups have everything to do with the components, type of speakers (dispersion characteristics), preferred genre of music, and most importantly, the size room, it’s acoustical properties, and desired music playback philosophies (you-are-there, they-are-here, soundstage holographics, recording types, acoustical performances, amplified performances, 2-channel disappearing systems, etc.)!
FWIW, my dedicated music room front wall is only 9ft, with side walls of 10ft (ceiling is 11ft). With 2-way monitors 2ft from side and front walls, have my “Y” (60") at 70% of my “X” (87"). A 5-degree stand-monitor “toe-out” offers a Huge 3D Soundstage that spreads well beyond All room boundaries, but still presents a well-defined and sharp focus center channel and musician imaging placements! Over 90% of my music library/listening sessions are live vocal and instrumental recordings…Audio System and Room Disappears!!
My music reproduction goals are, “I-Am-There”!!! Ted
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Thanks for sharing. You are the first toe-out voter, glad to know how many different rooms need different solutions. I agree with you, there are infinite variables.
After a few years in this hobby I learnt I always need to learn more. And this forum is an endless inspirational resource. The good thing is that doing so I was able to elevate my engagement at a degree I never thought possible before.
Thanks members and Boulder guys! Enjoy all your journeys.
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How important is not only symmetry but also keeping speakers in parallel with front wall.
After having a few experiments and measurements I found a solution to gain a perfect balanced soundstage. Please don’t think I invented the hot water.
During last weeks I heard a little predominance on the left side, where the soundstage seemed more extended towards the left side.
I was thinking the culprit was the speakers set up, as if they were differently toed in.
I have fought a lot with tape and light meter. The image was perfectly centered, with solid rock voices in the center.
Finally I discovered a lack in parallelism between the line of front speakers and the front wall (difficult to got before because I was taking “wrong” measures only respect speakers and listening position).
Before
After
Please, take the draft with a grain of salt. They were not so unparalleled. We are talking about a inch more or less. Moved the speakers to have them on a line perfectly parallel to the front wall, problem solved.
Everyday I learn more from this hobby!
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Usually very important…
I use a laser measuring tool to make sure distance from “tweeters” to front walls are same.
That said, keep in mind many (if not most) front and back walls are not perfectly parallel.
The final measurements must, therefore, always be taken with one’s own ears.
Cheers.
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Thanks, very curious about your laser tool, can you share a pic?
in a recent video Paul said that it is best not to have parallel walls or even a ceiling parallel to floor
here is one I purchased among many to choose from
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I have a Bosch laser for distance and a leveling one but I’m looking for something useful for:
. Toe in/out speakers angle
. Keeping speakers in parallel (thanks to a wall of light not a sigle line light, if exists)
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Luca:
I am just using a Bosch laser gizmo like yours.
Don’t have a picture handy…
Ciao
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