I still haven’t gotten myself into streaming. To get decent sound it is like everything else will need investment into good streaming device along signal path. Having a busy life and a bit lazy, I put money into adding vinyls and CDs instead. It has been a lot of fun searching and finding good music from both used and new markets, however my boss / wife doesn’t like seeing the listening room full of LPs and CDs.
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Welcome on board rkindel. Until last July I was vinyl devoted and following advices from a few members on this forum I started my streaming journey. Never thought possible but truth be told, I actually listen to music 90% by streaming! Does it mean I consider digital better than analog? Absolutely not!
First advice: don’t expect to better your vinyl habits, you can simply appreciate a different quality. As much enjoyable experience as records but always a different thing. Period!
The MK II IMO is the right way to start, really impressive but not enough! If you are falling into this rabbit hole you’ll probably feel the urgency sooner or later to upgrade other components along the chain.
FWIW my real big (second) leap was the server/streamer, when I put my MacMini out of the system for a dedicated unit I understood what really streaming is.
As always it’s just a question of knowledge (read a lot), trial and error processes (experiment a lot and let your ears judging) and unfortunately financial capabilities (avoid insane expensive purchasing, even if most of us are doing exactly so, me included, what a terrible hobby).
Enjoy your new journey, good luck!
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DS MK2 will make the most improvement for sure. In my setup it improves my streaming chain more than PST.
In another thread there is a big discussion on Holo Red, and it is in your price range, I think. My Euphony Summus2 is at a bit higher cost, but it is a very fine piece and their App. works great too!
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You can get excellent (I mean really excellent) results with a raspberry pi for streamer, or if you don’t want to faff around with vaguely IT tasks, one of the Pi-based streamers, indeed the Holo Audio Red is getting a lot of appreciation, and there are many others.
So plus one for getting an excellent DAC first 
Edit - as for whether it is “better” than vinyl or as good as, well then you are in to the whole “does quality mean accurate or pleasant to listen to”
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Sounds familiar 
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Much like the case of vinyl, for digital… everything matters. Consider it a journey and you will be richly rewarded.
I agree that the DAC is the highest priority with the streamer second. You could easily get a high-value streamer and use that to whet your appetite for a few years. That would also let you get a few more details pinned down while you learn the ins and outs of streaming and the various services.
I’m using a Grimm MU1 for my streamer/server at home. In my office I’m using a Lumin T2, which integrates the DAC. While I think the T2 (now replaced by a T3) is exceptional value and quite good, it’s no comparison to my home setup.
In both systems, power cords can materially improve playback, both on the DAC and streamer. On the Lumin, the ethernet cord made an equally material improvement. I am testing ethernet cords on the MU1, but it apparently buffers the song it’s playing locally (you can unplug the ethernet cable to swap it relatively quickly without disrupting playback), so ethernet may not impact that much.
I tested a well-regarded network switch with the MU1 at home and it wasn’t a positive in my system. (I posted here about the results.) I was told by my dealer for the MU1 not to use “audiophile” networking hardware, and that seemed to validate his advice.
My network switch doesn’t have an external power supply, so I didn’t do anything on that front, but I did install some relatively inexpensive Shunyata power cords to help control noise on the overall system. That helps too. (I think it was the Venom V14 NR for the network switch.)
Just a guess, but an iFi Stream is probably a great place to start, especially if you can pair it with one of their very quiet external power supplies.
On the vinyl/digital subject, I think this is an excellent bit of coverage: Vinyl versus Digital - Grimm Audio
Okay, I admit it - I’m no longer a traditional audiophile. I don’t talk about vinyl with hushed reverence or passionate nostalgia. My turntable has not been turning for several years. My cartridge’s stylus has been bent and unusable for as long as I can remember. My records are stuffed into boxes in the basement. The only vinyl recording I wish I could still play is one that isn’t available on Qobuz: Pete Townshend playing “Pinball Wizard” at The Secret Policeman’s Ball. I still play CDs sometimes on my ancient Sony CD player, but that player is old and tired, making worrisome clicks and pops it didn’t used to make.
When I want to play a CD from my collection, I typically rip it in WAV to the 2TB drive in my Innuos Zen Mk3 streamer/server and then stream it (via USB) from the Zen to my DirectStream Mk2 DAC. The USB feed from the Zen is very good sounding on its own, but before it even gets to the DAC, the feed is cleaned up by going through an Innuos PhoenixUSB re-clocker. I never went to the time and trouble of ripping my entire CD collection to the Zen’s hard drive, so I only rip a few favorites to the drive when I feel like hearing them, and then I can include them in playlists that combine files on the drive with files from Qobuz. The Innuos Sense app is excellent for organizing and playing files, and it’s one of the best apps available for streaming for users who do not want to invest in Roon.
My experience thus far with streaming is that the main enemy of good sound is noise (carried along with the stream into the DAC) and compression of the dynamics in files offered by streaming services like Qobuz and Tidal. To reduce the effects of noise on sound quality, I have found it important to clean up the incoming feed to my Innuos streamer by using a passive Ethernet noise filter (like the ones from Network Acoustics). Using a high-quality Ethernet switch (with a good power supply) along with a good Ethernet cable from the switch to the streamer can also be helpful. Others have used fiber optic connections in the Ethernet stream to reduce noise transmission, but I have not used fiber in my system. There continues to be some debate about whether the process to convert copper Ethernet to fiber Ethernet, and then back again, could introduce some noise into the system - but many people swear by the positive effects of fiber.
In terms of sound quality in my audio system, vinyl is no longer a player due to my decision not to search for the perfect turntable, cartridge, phono preamp, phono cable, record cleaning device, etc. My best SQ comes from CDs ripped to the drive in my Innuos Zen or from hi-res files streamed from Qobuz. Streamed files can often be optimized by searching out those that have not reduced the dynamic range of the recording; all too often, recently remastered files actually sound worse than the original recordings, and searching for the best file can be worthwhile. My streamed music is so good now that I do not miss playing records on a turntable. Use of a great DAC (the DS Mk2), a very good server/streamer, and efforts to reduce noise on both Ethernet and USB have paid off well for me. It’s definitely possible to do streaming with only a small investment in gear, and the results can still be very rewarding. However, moving up to a modestly increased investment in streaming gear and noise reduction can pay off in the long run and result in SQ that rivals - or possibly even exceeds - that available in a vinyl system of similar cost.
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I’m using it with if I power elite, sounds good
Lots of interesting features
I read glowing reports here about the MK 2, and reviews in the audio press on crazy expensive DACs, that lead me to hope that we finally have reached the time in history where the well known problems that digital has suffered from the beginning have finally been solved. The $8000 price for the MK 2 is almost in the unattainable level for me, but not quite. If I save up now, and when units begin to show up on the used market, or if PS Audio offer it on one of their wonderful sales, then it’s really in my wheelhouse. The thought that the MK 2 could actually be a product that might be competitive with those much higher priced DACs that I will never see, let alone afford, seems like a once in a lifetime opportunity. Only time will tell If the MK 2 is actually the landmark product I hope it is. My 16 year old Benchmark DAC really isn’t that far off. It does a lot really well. I just have to believe that the digital scene has to be closing in on that level of performance that I believe it can at some point. If it’s not the MK 2 then some other DAC in the near future. What I lack, at this point, is the perspective that would come with actually hearing the new crop of DACs in my own system.
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Good strategy! Maybe you can also consider, at the same price of a new MK II, starting your journey with both a MK I (if modified is close to MK II) and a superior streamer/server on the used market. Innuos, Aurender, Lumin, Auralic, Antipodes or the top Grimm MU1. Just to find out if you can live with digital music from a higher starting point and eventually upgrading something step by step in future.
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The idea of starting with a used MK1 was where I was a month or so back. Certainly no lack of choices. But then I started reading all the glowing reports here from people upgrading to the MK2 that convinced me that the new DAC was a significant upgrade and probably what I’m really looking for. And the posts above make a good argument for allocating more on the DAC side and less on the streaming side.
Hear, hear!
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You can’t go wrong, don’t worry.
I was only suggesting you to consider that a used MK I at the moment is a bargain: you can invest “only” the 30% of your budget for a great DAC. Saving the 70% for an higher server/streamer. If you compare a modded MK I to a brand new stock MK II there is objectively a difference in SQ but frankly not really proportional to the difference in price between the two.
If 100 is the budget and we all agree that the DAC is relevant to obtain a great result, don’t underestimate the impact of a good server/streamer to achieve a better final result.
There are 4 variables to consider IMO:
the DAC, where both MK I and MK II are playing a remarkable role with no doubts
the server/streamer, where a higher component is not secondary
the noise reduction, where cables, switches, DDCs, converters, LPSs are the hardware important part of the equation
the controller, where you need a proper software to have fun and easily satisfy your streaming needs, Roon is an example (paying a subscription) or other related to the streamer/server brand, often included with the unit, Sense OS for instance if you buy an Innuos product
To be cynical and practical, I would summarize the investment in 2 options:
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1 = 90% for MK II and 10% for mid server/streamer and the rest
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2 = 30% for MK I + 50% for a higher server/streamer + 20% for the rest
Following option 1 you probably need to consider an upgrade within a short period, as soon as a new budget is ready to be invested.
Following option 2 you are able to start your streaming adventure from a higher level since the beginning, postponing further improvements.
My personal view based on my recent experiences.
Hope that helps.
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As PSA is having difficulty filling already accepted orders in a timely fashion now due to the parts shortage I would suspect that waiting on any kind of sale by them on the Mk II is wishful thinking at best and not likely to happen any time in the near future. In the meantime both Axpona and the Munich show are coming up soon and new products on the DAC and streamer front are sure to be introduced. So it comes down to how long you want to wait it out instead of looking at many other great DACs that are out there at comparable prices or even less. If you decide to go with the higher price DAC and lower priced streamer the Zen Stream is a good starting point but the Holo Red may be an even better option as it’s only one box with more output choices. I own them both and would give the edge to the Red. You might also want to consider JKRichards personal modded Mk I in the Marketplace as an interim alternative.
There are “lesser” DACs that sound extremely good available these days, you could do a lot worse than one of the RME ADI 2 range for around a thousand pounds/dollars/euros (unless you go for the “Pro” which would be overkill for most purposes and even that is less than 2 thousand), but on this forum, if the MK2 is too expensive (or too slow to deliver) a MK1 seems to be loved by all who hear it
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The things is, try as you might you can not make a vinyl library with more titles the Qobuz. If you want to learn about all types of music, and endless number of musicians you would not encounter otherwise, streaming is a great choice. If, like I once felt, you can curate a much better library on your own, by all means do. But if you want a chance to hear everything from everybody, and at a cost you can afford and in the very space you live in, streaming is tops.
Does it sound as good as it needs to? Yes it does. Does it sound as good as vinyl? I couldn’t care less.
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I agree with you 100%…
I was a big DAC guy and still am but I am liking the discovery process even more. Maybe I’ll do a thread on a streamer I’m trying with Gan technology as well… It’s really a cool piece feature wise.
Integrated amp with high-res network audio and 4K video streaming
250 watts x 2 into 8 ohms or 4 ohms
Solid aluminum chassis with four-sides/all-in-one construction to reduce vibrational noise
12.6-inch-wide, high-def touchscreen LCD on front panel
Built-in dual-band Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac)
Customized Android operating system
Control with the built-in touchscreen, the RoseConnect Premium app for Apple® and AndroidT devices, or the supplied Bluetooth remote
Dual-core Cortex A-72 processor, up to 1.8GHz; quad-core Cortex A-53 up to 1.4GHz
ESS Sabre ES9038PRO DAC
Maximum resolution: 32-bit/768kHz for PCM-based files (DSD up to 22.4 MHz)
Supports Apple AirPlay, DLNA, and MQA
Supports TIDAL, Spotify, Qobuz, RoseTube (YouTube), internet radio stations, and RosePodcast
Works as a Roon player (requires Roon subscription and Roon Core running on your network)
Supported audio formats include MQA, WAV, FLAC, AIFF, WMA, MP3, OGG, M4A, and more
Supported video formats include ASF, AVI, MKV, MP4, WMV, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, and more up to 4K resolution
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Read your vinyl vs digital link. I think they hit the nail on the head with their mastering observation. I’m surprised music companies haven’t addressed this by now. There is no compelling reason to compress music on a medium capable of high dynamic swings. This would go a long way towards making digital viable.
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I’m always watchful for other DACs. I’m somewhat limited because I’ve made the personal decision not to buy a Chinese DAC. I’m open to the rest of the world though.
I’m hoping to see MK2s in my price range by 2025 or 2024 if I’m lucky. Luckily, I rather enjoy the shopping-planning experience.
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I now have two DACs with the ESS9938Pro. It’s good stuff.
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