The elephant in the room…

[johnjen]

So this is the ‘Final Report’ for this series of experiments.

It took quite a while to finish this experiment, longer than I figured it would take…

So to review, I’ve added WA-Q chips to the entire ac power distribution system from the 2) ac mains feeding the main breakers in my panel.

All the way to the 2 transformers in the Mojo amp including the fuse chips and synergistic fuses. And the romex feed from the dedicated breaker also has chips wrapped around it, in a couple of places.

These last few tweaks required an ever increasing number of hours before coming into ‘full focus’. This last round of adding the final set of chips has taken nearly 1khrs. to reach its peak. And as I write this I’m just passing 900 hrs on the transformer chips. Willie Nelson (Stardust) at 88.2 sounds mighty fine…

The thing that ‘sticks out’ the most about taking all this time is, the overall SQ is wonderful even though it takes a while to reach the sought after 100%+. And the degradation in between the last 100% and the new 100% is no where near as bad as the past swirling into the toilet experiences. Which means that while these incremental increases are taking longer to settle in, the overall SQ is steadily rising and the degree of awful sounding periods between are not as bad.

And these past few additions while seemingly adding even smaller portions of an incremental effect are pushing the previous 100% to 105-115% each time. IOW the last performance peak keeps getting bumped ever higher as the latest tweak fully settles in.

Which is what one would hope to have happen assuming that all of the tweaks compliment each other, and are indeed improvements and not just change for changes sake.

And the set of terms I used to describe the high water mark have also expanded to include new terms, focus and holographic.

I touched upon focus in my previous post, but these past few tweaks have driven that point home for me. I can hear various portions of the frequency spectrum loose focus while other portions gain it. And they seem to swap back and forth as the entirety of the whole presentation continues to improve. For instance the bass now has tonality, which means I can hear the bass notes, as notes and not just low freq whumps or thuds or rumbles. But during the settling in process the upper mids can get pinched and a bit ‘scratchy’ or hard edged. Then these 2 ends will swap and the mids and up, become enticing while the bass goes a bit flat and looses coupling. Only to have the focus come back in a little different portion of the audio spectrum, and on and on. All in keeping with the moiré pattern idea as a ‘guide’ to help explain this progression.

Then there is the term holographic that sprang forth due to the solidification, with precision, of the sonic image. And its not just a 3d image hanging in 3d space. There is this harmonic convergence thing, where not only is the generated acoustic energy well coupled to each voice but for example it yields being able to hear such things as back up or background vocals, each as a separate and distinct voice unto themselves, and in the bass where the rich harmonic resonances when properly coupled to their parent become ‘whole’ musical voices not just low frequency thrills and ‘effects’.

When the entire ‘soundstage’ is plainly evident and each voice is musical with its own musical contribution, and not just in 3d space, but is also in a precise time synch with itself, this results in all of the attributes I’ve listed in my previous posts, including gaining a holographic precision to the entire experience.

So now as I finish up this report and I’ve passed the 1050hr mark, the Listener Fatigue Factor has also dropped way off and the dynamic range as seemingly widened as a result as well.

Overall I’d say this series of tweaks are the single most successful set of ‘enhancements’ I’ve made, mostly due to my previously implemented improvements and these latest upgrades are ‘compatible’ and mutually reinforcing.

JJ

[lonelyraven]

Forgive my ignorance, but how exactly do these little stickers actually work. I’ve read though what you’ve said here, and it honestly sounds too good to be true. Just slap some little stickers on everything and burn in…I don’t get it.

[ryonlunch32]

Yeah, it’s all too much like magic to me. Like buying some nice expensive “audiophile” stones and placing them around the room is going to improve the sound, reduce magnetic interference or improve the aura of the room to enhance the listening experience. Or placing some electronic gadget in the room that is supposed to generate an ultra-low frequency EM field to soothe the soul or whatever.

Those “quantum chips” sound too much like snake oil to me and they might as well be potato chips. However, they do appear to have some effect though I question is this real or placebo. I guess it is real for those who experience it regardless of the cause.

J.P.

[johnjen]

Lonely Raven said Forgive my ignorance, but how exactly do these little stickers actually *work*. I've read though what you've said here, and it honestly sounds too good to be true. Just slap some little stickers on everything and burn in...I don't get it.

I really have no idea how they work. I speculated as to what they are doing but thus far there isn't much of any substantive explanation.

But the proof is in the tasting, so to speak, and for me and in my system the ≈$300 expense is well worth it.

As for if it’s snake oil or magic etc. The best (and really only) way to tell is to try them for yourself.

And since the fuse chips are only $7.50 or $9.00 each, it’s a minimalist expense to try them and if there is no benefit they can be returned for a refund.

I do wish there was a more plausible explanation, or just a reasonable one, but really it boils down to do they help or not… And only you can determine that for your self.

JJ

[johnjen]

An Addendum with experiments you can try in the privacy of your own home!

And just when you thought it was safe to figure my whole exploration into alternative ways of looking at tunes was over and done with…

PWD/DS USB ENHANCEMENTS *

or

Now I have a choice of digital inputs!…

So as most know, running the bridge is usually preferred over usb for the additional musical information that is heard.

And recently I concluded a series of tests/experiments to see how much I could improve the SQ while using usb vs. that of cat7.

It involved 3 steps or related upgrades.

So for those who are ‘up’ for an experiment, try this…

1. Use a decent usb cable (I use an AudioQuest Coffee)

2. Order up a Wyrd decrapifier from Schiit Audio ($100) (15 day trial period, see the terms, not affiliated etc.)

3. Cook the usb cables. (This is only possible on a very few standalone cookers.) And if you are really interested in this, but lack access to this specific type of cooker, pm me, I might be able to help…

(I use a ‘not the cheapest’ usb cable that runs from my computer to the Wyrd, then the Coffee into the PWD, both of which were cooked at the same time.)

Compare the sonic signatures between cat7 and this augmented usb setup. With Media Center you can run both players simultaneously, which makes this test quite easy.

For me, for the first time, I can now use usb as an ‘equal’ (or better) source of digital data.

But what was surprising to realize was, that the differences between these 2 data paths could be described as, analog coloration, or as FR shifts. And some of these FR shifts can be ‘compensated’ by DSP EQ. In other words I can ‘tailor’ the kind of sound I prefer, sort of like tube rolling, only now all I have to do is switch digital inputs in the PWD/DS * to accomplish a similar end result.

“Hmmmm, this is not the solution I expected”. (can you guess which album that comes from? Hint: think the 70’s)

Just think, no more burnt fingers!…

And might I add that these tests were performed using AudioQuest 10% silver cladded cat7 and usb cables, just to make this comparison as ‘equal’ as possible. And I have to mention that I owe my local AudioQuest dealer (Reference Media) a HUGE favor for the extended ‘loan’ of the pair of AudioQuest Vodka cat7 cables. This test wouldn’t have been as ‘fair’ without their support.

And now that I can use a usb based player (media center), other tools become available that the cat7 data path player didn’t support, like DSP and gapless etc.

But by gaining the use of DSP I can now perform yet another experiment, one that may sound odd at first but thus far has worked out quite well for me in my system.

Try this… (NOTE: This experiment is probably not going to work as well on single ended headphones. But since I only run in balanced mode, I haven’t tried this on single ended phones to know this for certain, so beware! Proceed with Caution!)

In your player (in software) reverse the polarity of just one channel. For some this can be available as a function in DSP.

Huh? I hear some say…

…stay with me on this…

Then reverse the wires that feed that same channel at your speakers/headphones (balanced!)

This is the tricky part for some setups, because some will be ‘easy’ to swap the leads, while other systems may not lend themselves to this experiment. For example, systems with a shared (L&R) channel subwoofer etc., and some headphones don’t ‘lend themselves’ to this sort of modification. Also certain other DSP functions (like headphone crossfeed) don’t seem to do well with with reversed polarity channels.

Then listen.

It may take hours of playing time to fully settle in. (I noticed it ‘kicked in’ after ≈ 100hrs. and my WAG is that the speaker/headphone cables running the reversed channel need to get used to this reversed polarity.)

But pay attention to the bass response, the inner details, background noise/noise floor, etc.

Are there any changes?

Do you like what you hear?

I suspect that some setups will reveal more changes than others, but in my system this reversal ‘trick’ mostly effects my amp since it’s the major analog device in my audio chain, apart from the analog output of the PWD, which should also ‘benefit’ but to a lessor degree.

And I do hear changes that by my chosen criteria are improvements.

This trick was ‘discovered’ back when we were running an Audio Research SP-3A-1 and a Phase Linear 400.

The design of that pre-amp was that the right and left channels were both present in the same dual triode for each active stage.

So by reversing the polarity of one channel, the common mode signals between the channels, while in the tube, in real time, were further reduced.

And in the power amp, having bass whumps pull (more) equally on both the + and - rails of the power supply, again in real time, meant that it could deliver more instantaneous power. In a sense it’s like getting a slew rate increase, for free.

This resulted in significant bass AND inner detail response improvements.

And now that DSP is useable in my system, I can now say this reversal ‘trick’ is ‘effective’.

And since it is very easy to undo, this makes it easy to determine what the changes truly are as a result of this tweak.

And they are easy to hear, at least in my simple system.

JJ

• Disclaimer - I have not tried this on a DS DAC. So there is an assumption on my part that the benefits I have heard on the PWD-mkII will ‘carry over’ to the DS.

[johnjen]

Just a quick question/observation, or 2…

Since this thread isn’t what I’d call an ‘audience’ participatory experience, its hard for me to judge if this thread is appreciated or perhaps even valued.

I ask because I’m about to venture into my next series of experiments and if there is but a slight interest, it probably would be best to not beat a dead horse, or words to that effect…

Just curious is all.

JJ :thumb

[Elk]

Hi, JJ

I have been enjoying them. You are so thorough however that my questions are already answered, all angles covered.

[johnjen]

Damn…

Does that mean I’m a victim of my own thoroughness…?

JJ

[Elk]

Yup.

[johnjen]

AllRightyThen…

That’s one vote for me to continue to submit my investigations for perusal amoungst the cognoscenti…

JJ

[desnoyersehrenberg249]

Bring it on JJ.

great stuff that I might never find the time or patience to investigate or ever attempt to articulate myself.

[johnjen]

Well since 2 of the ‘heavy weights’ weighed in with

I guess I’ll just have to drop my next few missives in here.

I just started to take measurements today (the tester just showed up)

So I’m off to the races, so to speak.

JJ

[alrainbow]

Grewt read jj. I too have a few questions. One observation I have made and it’s for me and not saying we all hear as I do is.

I hear diffrent at different times of the day or even mood. I think for us people who do not just listen to our music but more of how our system sounds adds much to over sound shape we hear. For instance I am a bad sleeper not always but enough that it’s a lifelong issue .

for me ! When I wake up and if I listen to music I no doubt hear on a much better level of overall detail. Can it be I am just using more of the little brain I have to the music as I am not thinking of other things.

Also during the day overall not as good as night. Again why , and if I am going to a listing session at a friends house I am peaked weather it’s during the day or night.

I have long said we all hewr a little different and some claim it’s food related . I rod a post that a man justices before he listens and increases his awareness . Is he crazy , well,no more than chips or batteris ona wire. At some point the power of our own suggestions becomes a part of our own beliefs in every thing. We have had things happen in our lives that over time distort to The point that little fact Ramains. But it sure is real to us. As humans we are very complex in thought and I think that we are the biggest contributing factors to our own listing experience . Not that equipment changes do not have an effect but the overall change and we effect yes.

How many of us roll tubes here. And if you have how many of us have determined a pair of tubes was not viable and at a later date have determined they were or not as bad or not as good as we thought . It’s just the way it is for me anyway.

Now please do take any thing I have said not as sarcasm or a dig at anyone’s here reality. It’s just my own observation of myself and others.

I have been to homes . Lovely setups. And at times they sound great and others not. Even if I bring my own reference music.

One last thought , education helps for better understanding but also can hinder us as well. As Ted looks for improvements in sound he looks at instruments to find the improvements. To me as good as this sounds it does not always sound better. See my point colorations in some ways are just better to some of us. Even if wrong. So when a musician tells me how it’s real to him and it’s not to me this applies . Now I may be ignorant for thinking this but I am happy with my systems. However I do try many others concepts to improve but ultimately it’s my brain that must like the food in the music.

[johnjen]

Psycho-acoustics is a whole nuther area of study/involvement that tends to get rather complicated very quickly. Not to mention diurnal shifts and changes that our bodies go thru, dragging us along with it…

And most are familiar with the ‘advantages’ of late night listening. Which seems coincident with ‘better’ power and it being an easier time for concentration (fewer distractions etc).

But there is also the changeability of the SQ in our systems as a factor, which is an adjunct to break in which I have only lightly and indirectly touched upon in my earlier missives. For instance right now it’s the middle of the afternoon and I’m listening to Dave Crusin’s Homage to Duke and it’s Wonderful.

Usually mid afternoon isn’t an ideal time for tunes. But my toes are a tap’n and my head’s a bob’n -n- weave’n. And usually at this point in the day, music is mostly just background, without much in the way of being compelling.

Not right now…

My point is the attributes of wondefullness (which I have tried to put into words in my posts here), tend to come and go thru time. And yes certainly our mood or predisposition influences our perceptions.

But there also seems to be changes in the musical presentation by our playback system(s) as well. Can they cop an attitude? Get all dark and moody all by themselves?

Because it wasn’t just psycho-acoustical influences, that lead to my ‘toilet-dump’ experience that lasted for 60hrs of playing time. That was the equipment itself going ‘out of focus’ and rather quickly (over a 12-20 hr period) at that, and then much more slowly coming back into an even tighter focus than before the ‘big swirl’ experience.

And it wasn’t a FR or a single simple sonic aspect that was degraded. Rather it was the more subtle inner details that evaporated into thin air, a lack of bass and bass impact, and the sound being ‘pinched’ into a 2d presentation, all of which sounded like crap. It was like listening to a small piece of paper, instead of hearing the ‘real’ world that surrounds us in all 3 dimensions.

But the flip side of this is we can use music to ‘re-align’ ourselves, use it as a ‘tool’ and focus our awareness and attention on something else, music. Which just happens to ‘force’ us into the Now, where music exists.

Experiencing Now, in any of its forms or guises is a vaunted aspiration for many who seek these and similar experiences. And this alone can be highly therapeutic and can ‘undo’ much of the daily stresses and consternation we tend to accumulate.

IOW music can be thought of and used as a tool for us to drop some of the baggage we lug around with us and to appreciate, all the more, when we ‘lighten the load’ and deliberately re-focus our attention within our mind.

We seek to and can get ‘carried away’ by our music, and it’s not just because of the enjoyment, but other factors such as emotional and mental cognition of what we experience, which also seem to be primal aspects of why we pursue this hobby to the degree that we do.

JJ

ps I recently had a SEB (Spontaneous Emotional Burst) for the first time ever. That a system, comprised of audio equipment could evoke such an emotional response is quite telling, at least to me anyway.

[alrainbow]

Thanks for a far more detailed epalanation. Of course it was just my own observations. Regarding power I completely agree it has a direct influence . But if the nieborhood is residential it should be more noisy at night and not so during the day. I have a bunch of p/5,10 ,s.

As such I can see the input dis torsion and voltage change. On my p5,s. I can here the input transformer buz with off set dc . This I have measured saw ell with a scope i own. Still through it all I cannnot pin down any coroltation of time and when it happens other than my own psych causeing it.

Now I can say anyone who uses and kind of network in there audio system be aware that wired for me still rules and wireless in NYC is just subpar for the most part. And wired if connected too a router is very suspect in charges in sound .

For me a dedicated server cpu setup allows me to hear the same all time except for my own issues.

In my old office my building is right next to a steel yard . They bounce steel for the better part of the day . If the steel noise as vibration was severe it had a definite effect negatively in listening. In guess in just ruined my mood.

again nice reply.

Al

[stevem2]

There are occasions when my system really snaps into focus. Unfortunately, I have not been able to discern a pattern as to when or why this lucidity occurs or make it the norm. I agree with Al that power at night is not necessarily better than during the day. At night my Noise Harvesters often blink nearly nonstop. There may be less industrial power pollution at night but more residential pollution. Also, power companies will run different mixes of power plants depending on demand so your power may be coming from farther away. This “natural” (i.e., unexplained and unpredictable) variability makes it hard to make qualitative comparisons other than those that can be made in real time. Some of this (probably more than we realize) may be psychoacoustic but I don’t think all of it is.

[johnjen]

stevem2 said There are occasions when my system really snaps into focus. Unfortunately, I have not been able to discern a pattern as to when or why this lucidity occurs or make it the norm. I agree with Al that power at night is not necessarily better than during the day. At night my Noise Harvesters often blink nearly nonstop. There may be less industrial power pollution at night but more residential pollution. Also, power companies will run different mixes of power plants depending on demand so your power may be coming from farther away. This "natural" (i.e., unexplained and unpredictable) variability makes it hard to make qualitative comparisons other than those that can be made in real time. Some of this (probably more than we realize) may be psychoacoustic but I don't think all of it is.

This changeability with regards to SQ is a real puzzle to me and has been a source of motivation to investigate further (duh…)

But one thing that does standout in my investigations is there are recognizable patterns that repeat and so become easy(er) to spot. These patterns don’t always repeat in the same way depending upon what changes I make but the elements of the pattern are all quite similar. And some of the patterns appear while others don’t, based upon what experiment I’m in the middle of at the moment.

But as the state of the tweak of my system gets more ‘advanced’ the patterns themselves get more involved. Put another way, as the system is able to resolve more and more detail the patterns themselves also become more ‘complex’ and interrelated.

I’m hoping that my current experiments will provide further insights into some of this.

JJ

[alrainbow]

Noise from our homes most certainty increases as we turn on May devices to cook or tv. Even the computers we use to play the music. If we could measure the manic we hear many of the obnormals we think we hear could be accounts for. Our eyes do the same thing . Ocular imagines at better after rest. In used to race cars and Motor bikes there is no doubt our brain gets saturatd at times worth site. Some may say it’s age or poor diet . But it does exist. At least it did for me. We are biological creatures so ,any varibles can exist and be unique To us.

Some may hear better and others worse but again varibles fog in this so even someone who dies hewr that may overlap with one that does. Some claim there wives hewr better. Well I know my wife hears the dryer go off two floor up. Shit I if do. But if I ask her about the sound of something she’s deaf compared to me. Just some ramblings .

But if there is any one thing besides letting it warm up a bit it’s power its one apsolute varibles in this. Another could be radiation in let’s say radio waves maybe even sun spots or the like. When I used to set the big dishes for customers there were a few hours a year when th sun was just right in line with the setalites and no pictures could be seen ona particular sat for say 30 mins as it past onto another. The stuff does happen. But I think most just do not notice.

Pal

[johnjen]

One of my previous posts ‘suggested’ that power factor might be a factor in this and recently I’ve been investigating ASCC (Available Short-Circuit Current) as a significant contributor as well.

But one thing seems certain, we all notice that our audio systems have a degree of variablilty which seem to come and go with little that we can do about it.

And my question is, is this true for all systems and under all conditions, or can we ‘make it better’?

Thus far my experiments seem to tell me that yes I can ‘raise the bar’ in terms of SQ and coincidentally reduce the ‘toilet dump’ episodes. Now if only I could quantify these results for the ‘measurements or it doesn’t exist’ folks.

I’m work’n it…

JJ

[alrainbow]

That just the issue to quntifiy it’s even happening To our systems and is not us.

If I call. You and say my rig sounds like crap what does this mean

nothing. actually. And even if we both were there and said it does what does this to whines not there

same as above nothing.

Mad I do feel something is going on I cannot begin to understand what.

amd honestly I listen to music hours each day on the trains and it happens there too. I rotate through about 11 pairs of ciems. And three diffrent daps and portible dacs.

My reasoning is to cleanse my brain I always find it nice to change it up.