It was an eye opener for me. I think they took that concept and modeled it in their software, at least that is what they said. Heck maybe its 90% DBA and 10% software for all I know. I just know it was really cool. After just doing sub crawl in my room for both HT and 2 ch subs It was fresh in my head how different locations sound. a few feet can me 10db or more change in level. this was just crazy no change anywhere.
Would be interesting to see what their processor could do in a true 2 ch. setup. He kept playing things with all the speakers, which is I guess what they do, but to do waveform for a 2 ch setup with 8 subs (REL says 6 so its not that far off)
I’m continually amazed at the improvements I can make by adjusting speaker placement. I don’t know how many times I thought I had nailed the correct position of my speakers only to discover I wasn’t quite there yet.
Most recentely I tried a suggestion by OCD Mikey where he suggested moving the speakers further apart then towing them in.
By moving them further apart the soundstage became wider, the midbass became punchier because the speakers were closer to the side walls, and the little bit of low bass boom I had been experiening disappeared because the rear of the speakers were now aimed directely at the bass traps. Also, and don’t understand this, even with the speakers now towed in more than before, the top end smoothed out, dispite having the top end becoming to forward before with the same degree of tow in when the speakers were closer together. This was by far the biggest improvement I had ever experienced with speaker placement.
Crapy recording that previously drove me out of the room are now quite listenable.
Thanks for this. I have come to accept that two subs are better than one. It’s the stacks of three (six in total) that seem excessive (a term I should be careful using in a hobby where some speakers cost more than my house, but there it is). Could you say more about what you hear with six? I am genuinely curious about this.
Chris, thank you so much for this; it looks like (at least partially) the explanation I am looking for. But now I see 8 subs mentioned
Do I understand correctly that having multiple subs is mainly beneficial in rectangular rooms? I own a Victorian house (bay windows, pocket doors opening to adjacent rooms, etc.). In some ways this is good; for instance, I don’t really have first reflection points on sidewalls. Perhaps it’s not possible to predict how subs will work in such a space. I’m willing to get a couple of subs to fill out the bass on my Magnepan LRS+ and also see what happens in the room.
Bass is a long wave form and vertically stacking the subs is essentially covering a broader spectrum of the room vertically. Jonathan Valin’s reveiw of MBL Xtremes is long but near the end they cover the importance of bass and its omni dimensional nature. Simply put…the sound is more visceral and real.
Well, often in life “more is better” isn’t a good approach but it is with subwoofers.
Again, the stacking is only for more output/headroom, less distortion and doesn’t address the (often time more significant issue of) spatial variation. If you double the number of co-located subwoofers, each sub’s excursion requirements are halved, for a given SPL, so things sound cleaner. An alternate approach (if you want fewer box) is to use a subwoofer with a larger woofer or more displacement and use singles.
We’re offering a stacking solution (like REL or now KEF) because it’s a simple, modular upgrade, versus replacing a sub that you like with something larger. You can just add more as budget etc. allows, if you want more/better bass.
As far as room shape goes, even with multiple, mostly random locations in an arbitrary, non-rectangular room, more subs is better. A famous acoustician and designer did a thesis on this many years and here’s a bit of a summary and a longer video about it.
Double bass array (one of the techniques mentioned) requires a rectangular room because you’re creating a planar wave (imaging the sound moving as a plane, rather than an expanding sphere), so it needs to be contrained by the walls in a certain pattern.
I know that Satie is best known for his piano music, but I’m not sure what you’re saying. Do you mean that getting the woofers off the floor by using stands helps reproduce the bass in piano recordings, which can be tricky? Or do you mean that I shouldn’t try to reproduce full orchestra if I don’t want to get into the subwoofer game?
What do you think of lifting one or both subs off the floor to put the start of the bass wave closer to 1/3 the vertical height of the room. I used these absorbers in the past in an apartment complex to reduce the complaints from neighbors.
Indeed, two subs (left and right) make for a more balanced sound. I have two and it’s the sweet spot. Any more than two seems like overkill to me. FWIW, one seems like a bass limp noodle after you experience the left/right two experience.
I believe “it” depends on the room, main speaker placement and subjective preferences/objectives. Bass extension is as much a function of the shape and size of the room as it is the number and placement of LF drivers in the system.
Technically speaking, the LF wave forms do what they do and LF driver placement (both main speaker and subwoofer LF drivers) can boost or attenuate bass. Adding subwoofers not only has the potential to augment LF response but also to smooth out the LF peaks and troughs.
To a large degree it depends on one’s ultimate goals, is it bass extension, filling in bass holes in a room, managing bass nodes, acquiring improved articulation and definition across the frequency band. While my experience is limited, the addition of a second sub was transformative.
Yes the room plays a significant role, and knowing its limitations can help with selecting and pairing subwoofers.
Again it is situational being that system synergey and room integration play key roles. IME, undershooting bass extension in a small to mid-size room can yield significant results.
Just added my 2nd REL S510 (an open box special - so glad to avoid TMR Audio after bad experiences) and it has made an improvement over a single sub, but dialing it in is taking some huge effort with gain adjustments not really affecting the new sub as much as the one i’ve had for about a year…
any thoughts ? this a break in issue perhaps?
must add: it is already making me like my Confidence 20s more although I was considering a switch… might have ‘saved’ some money in the spend…
