What does a powercord do and how!?

@gordon Here’s another expert perspective debunking your expert’s perspective. I’m just a consumer and I’ll get the popcorn.



http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/power-cables





And why I’m I up so early and in front of the computer…? ~O) ~O) ~O)

Like most subjective debates, the only way to develop an opinion is to test the waters.

Based on my experience, I did a lot of comparisons, there are major differences that are very obvious regardless of the system components.

This is NOT to say that one must spend thousands to hear these differences. There are reasonably priced cables that will surprise you.

Most cable companies offer a trial period and will either supply a burned in cable or extend the trial for you.

I usually install the cable [one component at a time] and run it for a week.

Then after a good listening session [paper notes on my observations], I switch back to my reference cable and compare notes after 1 hour, and 1 day.

Your ears and brain will tell you which one you want to keep.

I agree with Gordon. I love the PerfectWave AC-12. . . I’d love to have one on each of my components (and I’m nearly there, buying mostly used, carefully). This is an expensive cable, but you can spend even more. I’ve not heard many that cost more, but I’ve heard lots of cheaper ones some of which are very good for a “second system” or if you are not a demanding audiophile. :slight_smile: Ones that I use in my second system, and in my Dad’s system (I’m looking after my parents to keep them in their home and unfortunately listen to my Dad’s system more than any other system I have, so I’ve been “beefing it up”) are those by MAC (My Audio Cables) and the excellent Decware power cord (made by MAC).

It also makes a big difference to feed the outlets good power… I have two dedicated 20amp circuits feeding my system. These consist of a 20amp breaker to 10Ga romex to Oyaide R1 outlets… I spent less for the 20 amp circuits ( parts & labor) than one of my Shunyata power cords :slight_smile:

@gordon The brain is full of misconceptions, bias and prejudice. One only need to interview several witnesses of a crime scene to figure that one out.



" If it’s expensive, it is therefore better." Reel’em in, we have another sucker.

@blueknight



You are right about that! I think when one test several cables with prices on it than almost everytime the cheapest sound bad and the most expensive sound the best. But this is only true for short listening terms. I’m positive when one listen for a few day’s per cable one would take the one he likes best.



For me in case of the AC12 I had low expectations. Not that I thought the cable wasn’t good, but I just not expected that much of a difference.


Cheap and Expensive Wine Taste the Same in Blind Taste Tests

I’m with you, about that! But you will have a preference in time! Certainly when they have a different taste. No matter which you like better cheap or expensive.

Cheap and Expensive Wine Taste the Same in Blind Taste Tests


Boons Farm drinkers perhaps.
There is no way they taste the same with any tasting experience.
There are "cheaper wines that can taste quite good though.

Just like winjnand expressed, given a reasonable base understanding and reasonable time the differences are usually confirmed. I have never been an endorser of AxB testing as it usually only allows inspection by the Left or "rational" brain. This is indeed the section most affected by expectations and bias.

http://www.thehighlanderpub.com/





When I was still on the job, I used to go to Ottawa on a regular basis and always picked a hotel across from the http://www.byward-market.com/



The Highlander Pub was almost like a second home. As you can see from the Single Malt menu, there is quite a variety and the rarest of the rare. Tasting portions ( ½ oz ) from $3.60 to $81.25 and sipping portions ( 1 oz ) from $5.95 to $129.95.



You are issued with a card that is kept with the pub so that when you return you know what you tasted last and whether or not you liked it. And then you just carry-on experimenting. And experiment, I did. My per diem helped soften the blow… And I can tell you, some of the more exotic ones tasted like burnt donkey pee. Some people like donkey pee and some people think that Coors Light is beer.



Put this place on your bucket list.

Gordon said: Boons Farm drinkers perhaps.
There is no way they taste the same with any tasting experience.

While one would think so, this is not the case. The original work was done with Wine Spectator as I recall. There is also the famous mid 1970's blind test were California wines bested French wines - a result which never occurred with sighted testing.

Audiophiles make the same claims of great hearing sensitivity. A claim which routinely falls apart when examined.

Gordon said: I have never been an endorser of AxB testing as it usually only allows inspection by the Left or "rational" brain.

?

ABX testing is generally performed with unlimited time and the ability to go back and forth as desired. The subjects know the items under test (such as 24/96 PCM v. DSD) and are well versed in the differences. The only unknown is whether the differences under test can be discerned when the subject is unaware of the source. That is, the only variable removed is expectation bias.

Foobar has a great ABX comparator plug-in one can use in the comfort of your own home in any way you would like. Use your brain of preference. :)

With power cords, one can easily elicit the help of a friend to install the cords randomly and hide them under a bit of wrapping paper or the like. Listen in any way which is comfortable and take whatever time you want.

Given the routine claims of large, revelatory differences it should be a simple matter to pick out the expensive product. There is nothing about an ABX which would remove these waffles from the table.
blueknight said: . . . tasted like burnt donkey pee.

I lack your experience with this reference.

Fortunately.

Perhaps you had it as Cuvée Pisse de Baudet Fume at your local club?

And now for a contrarian POV

But probably not what you expect.



I have known that wires do make a difference, IF and WHEN…



And let me point out that I am running a set of power cables I made.

In fact its my 4th generation of them. And I like them. They cost ≈ $35 in parts, with another ≈50 to $150 (depending on how you figure it), in ‘processing’ costs.



Are they as nice as the best of the $3K wires, no. But in some cases (like $1K -$3K range), yes, mine are clearly better, (and here’s the kicker) on MY system.



And really that is the only criteria that matters to me, and to you as well, on YOUR system.



I tried a $5K power cable and it was like there was a HUGE notch filter from 80-100Hz down to 0Hz. It wasn’t that there was lowered or very little bass. No, no. There was NO bass, in my system. It only lasted about 3 hrs of burn-in.



And then there is the (natural) tendency to select certain wires and active electronics that match our desired SQ and expectations. Our expectations vary widely.



Wires along with the other related subsystems (power delivery, connectors, fuses, etc.) can and do make a HUGE difference to those aspects that I desire and define as ‘good’ or improvements. But then what I desire or call improvements might not be what you desire.



Thus we could perceive that this discussion is firmly stuck on the horns of a dilemma. Sort like Clinton’s what is, is. But for us it’s what is ‘better’. We all use a variety of terms to describe ‘better’ but is it a safe assumption that we all hear the same and desire the same outcome from our audio improvements? This direction of thought can expand into complexity beyond measure, and gets ever more murky and muddy the further along we go.



So for me I don’t care whether the cable costs $50 or $5K. Does it improve those aspects that I desire, if so it’s a keeper.



And to REALLY stir the pot… there is a resurgence in discovering what are the basics of electricity, down to the level of electrical theory and along with practical applications of what these changes are.



These changes to our thinking of electricity should shed additional light on conductors and how they truly operate.



JJ

@Gordon and All,

Have you auditioned an AC12 vs the Shunyata cables I know you like? I’d be glad to hear what you think. Vance brought over a Shunyata, one of the latest I believe, and we placed it on the P 10 thinking it would make the largest difference at this place. We compared it to my relatively modest priced Signal Magic Power Cord. While it did make some subtle improvements the loss in weight and dynamics was pretty apparent. I wouldn’t trade one for the other. Another friend brought his new High Fidelity cables, speaker, interconnects, and power cords these cables cost several times what the Signal Cables do, the Signal Cables had a wider sound stage, better dynamics and power in the bass. The High Fidelity cables did have nice inner detailing but over all I preferred the Signal Cable. My friend still prefers the High Fidelity cables and maybe I’ll have him bring them over again and give them a try again.



It would be interesting to know what makes a great connector as well. The possibilities are endless yet I believe some of the stuff is just audio jewelry while other pieces seem to really make a difference. I mean the choices are very extreme silver, rhodium, gold, copper, bronze, aluminum, etc., vast differences in shielding included active and passive, magnets surrounding the connections like High Fidelity does

let alone the dielectrics and magic dust; the choices are seemingly endless. Yet I suspect there are some known factors just like Paul has iterated that make one type of connector better than another. Or that at least should be included in a sound connection.



I remember when Bob Fulton visited the store I worked at and we became Fultonized. We used the Brown Cable for most customers but many bought the Fulton Gold which had to be 6 gauge at least and was so stiff you could hook up a LS35A and then use the cable to hold the speaker up with. We had the Fulton system including head shell leads, the blue mat, Fulton Gold Interconnects, and even the Fulton J speaker system. He was a real pioneer.



Thanks for reading!

Steven B-)

@sgrowan

Ah the Fulton days.

I had the Fulton gold cables and was puzzled but elated at the difference they made compared to my various gauges of “premium” lamp wire.

The difference could only be described as huge.

My favorite test and description at the time was to hook only one speaker with the Fulton cable playing mono and I actually preferred the sound over stereo with the lamp wire on two speakers.

Stiff??? man were they stiff.

You could also use them to jump start your car in the winter months and to tow a trailer in the summer.

They were not exactly cheap at the time either.



I use the cheapest most basic Shunyatas [clean solid copper] to the P10 and to My amp.

I only use the fancier ones on my front end and especially anything digital.

I too found the hissing snakes choked the demanding power needs.

This was the set up I suggested to my customers too.



I agree to JJ’s notes on how individualized this process is and at the end of the day it is not about specs or price but the resulting effects on our systems and listening enjoyment.

I have sat in on many system AxB tests of equipment and accessories and in many cases I was fascinated by the regimental approach with check sheets, blind testing,etc and often my findings and preferences differed from the others.

Who was right? We ALL were.

Personally, I cannot survive an afternoon or evening of AxB unless, of course, it is with a rather well lubricated group with a great sense of humor. I can possibly hear and note differences as well as anyone, but, I don’t believe I could make a decision on overall preference and “keeper” quality without at least a week of LISTENING. But that may be just me?



No, I have not tried the AC12 yet.

Maybe someone at PSA will send me a demo for my birthday? : >}}}

johnjen said: So for me I don't care whether the cable costs $50 or $5K. Does it improve those aspects that I desire, if so it's a keeper.

This is the best possible measure of a successful purchase/addition.

So what did you do/find that works?

sgrowan said: many bought the Fulton Gold which had to be 6 gauge at least

Yike. These would be tough to get into place.

Gordon said: Who was right? We ALL were.

Yes. Whatever one hears is what one hears. Perceived differences, or lack thereof, are completely real for the listener.

Gordon said: I don't believe I could make a decision on overall preference and "keeper" quality without at least a week of LISTENING.

Perfectly reasonable. And there is no reason whatsoever this could not be accomplished blind. :)

The goal is to be open to either possibility; there is a difference or there is no difference.

Or the third option: there is a difference but it sounds dreadful.
johnjen said: So for me I don't care whether the cable costs $50 or $5K. Does it improve those aspects that I desire, if so it's a keeper.

This is the best possible measure of a successful purchase/addition.

So what did you do/find that works?
snip


I shamelessly stole (after I already purchased 2 of them) the 'design' for the AC cable from the Bottlehead guys. They used three twisted pairs (AC hot, AC neutral, ground) and the wove them into a cable. I updated the design with Rhodium connectors and UL rated all copper wire (16 g. TFFN) and then cryo'd the entire cable then cooked it for ≈65hrs and spent ≈ 40hrs+ breaking them in. These cables blow those $1.95 appliance (IEC) cables away, and many many of the hi-end cables as well. In fact I'm really having a hard time 'justifiying' even contemplating spending $3K x 3 for SOTA cables.

And since my system is REALLY simple and uses very low power (45w for the amp and ≈30 for the PWD) you would think there wouldn't be much to gain.

WRONG!!!!
In so many ways and with so many improvements, this is a no brainer as far as I can see.

JJ

In my move to the UK the movers lost one box I really cared about. In addition to some whisky I stashed in there it had NOS small tubes and a pair of Tara Labs RSC power cords. They always made any amp I put them on sing.



Like johnjen I have since rolled my own. I like the work, actually, of making tidy power cords. Perhaps nuts. In any event they are furutech FP-314Ag with Black Rhodium connectors. The shortest runs possible. Sound quite good.

@Gordon and All,
snip

It would be interesting to know what makes a great connector as well. The possibilities are endless yet I believe some of the stuff is just audio jewelry while other pieces seem to really make a difference. I mean the choices are very extreme silver, rhodium, gold, copper, bronze, aluminum, etc., vast differences in shielding included active and passive, magnets surrounding the connections like High Fidelity does
let alone the dielectrics and magic dust; the choices are seemingly endless. Yet I suspect there are some known factors just like Paul has iterated that make one type of connector better than another. Or that at least should be included in a sound connection.

I remember when Bob Fulton visited the store I worked at and we became Fultonized. We used the Brown Cable for most customers but many bought the Fulton Gold which had to be 6 gauge at least and was so stiff you could hook up a LS35A and then use the cable to hold the speaker up with. We had the Fulton system including head shell leads, the blue mat, Fulton Gold Interconnects, and even the Fulton J speaker system. He was a real pioneer.

Thanks for reading!
Steven B-)

I tried rhodium, gold and copper connectors on 3 different sets of the same cables I made. The rhodium is remarkable better.

I still have a stereo pair of Bobs 'J' cables. I think he started with some welding cable and then had a bunch made up in a zip cord configuration. At the time it was a jaw dropper both in size of cable and audible effect.

JJ