A must read for All red book cd people
A must read for All red book cd people
Wheeeeoooooo!!! That is an interesting read, LOADED with half truths, the truth stretched to it’s absolute limits and a few all but outright lies. Perfect sound Forever - that’s two lies there. Yes, redbook sound can be very good and CDs can last a long time, but the signal is not perfect and CDs most definitely do not last forever. I have perhaps half a dozen that simply cannot be read by any drive, another half a dozen that can be read but not without significant errors. There are about another dozen that can be read bit perfect according to accurate read, but this takes rereads and error correction to achieve. This is in a library of about 1000 albums.
How much was he paid by the CD publishing industry to produce this fanboy piece ??
I think I disagree with almost everything in this article. I usually try to find something that I can resonate with, but there is nothing here.
This is exactly why I put the link here. The more I read the more confusing the info becomes. And this link was within an article reviewing a 60 k dac and how it deals with jitter. I laughed according to them the the PWT should sound the best with red book. And it does not , in fact the bridge sounds better and the best is with my offramp. Thanks for taking an interest.
http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/RoomDynamicRange.html. Another good read .
wingsounds13 said: I have perhaps half a dozen that simply cannot be read by any drive . . .
Did they deteriorate with time?
I have purchase CDs which were flawed and I returned for replacement, but I have never had a CD go bad. I expect there is a shelf life for a pressed CD, but I do not know what this is.
"Perfect Sound Forever" is a marketing phrase, not a literal statement. CD's competition was cassette tape and vinyl. CDs do not hiss, do not click and pop, and can be played over and over. "Perfect Sound Forever" was great marketing and wholly accurate in context.
It is a strawman argument to assert Sony and Phillips asserted the sound was flawless in all respects and could never be improved upon, and would last until the end of time.
If one takes marketing phrases literally, one must have continuous fits with:
So easy a caveman can do it
Put a tiger in your tank
The best built cars in the world
Is it live, or is it Memorex?
M'mm M'mm! Good!
The happiest place on earth
Impossible is nothing
Good to the last drop
The ultimate driving machine
@elk great reply elk funny but to the point.
Most of the CDs that I have that have read problems have been in my library for years and were playable in normal CD players for most of that time. A few of the hard to read were $1 used CD purchases. Few have any visible flaws, but perhaps something might show under a suitable microscope. I am curious as to what the failure mechanism is. Perhaps it is the reflective medium (aluminum?) delaminating from the plastic inside the pits? Maybe a bit of research on the internet will prove fruitful.
I still consider Perfect sound Forever to be a lie, but apparently I hold higher standards than the FTC.
Yikes. I must have a whole library of bad CDs which magically become much more enjoyable when ripped and fed back through the PWD by my computer. It must be the introduction of jitter caused by the inferior computer and DAC that makes it sound so much better than my old Krell CD player. I wish that I still had my first CD player. I did not realize that it was perfect.
Polycarbonate plastic has a shelf life. I don’t know what that is though, but it’s optical properties degrade with time. The CD is a sandwich of plastic surrounding an aluminum disk. I have noticed that aluminum tends to oxidize rapidly upon exposure to the environment. So, yes there is a shelf life and it’s probably pretty long. LPs, though, do not last at all. Once you break the magic wrapper and remove the LP from it’s hermetically sealed vault it begins to degrade immediately in the natural environment. This happens so fast that one can barely get it onto the turntable before it begins to suffer significantly, ruining the sound quality.
Most of you have never heard an intact LP. Kim Jong Un, who, it is said, can survive for an indefinite amount of time while breathing nothing in a vacuum, has heard their sound and reported that it is spectacular but realized that mortals cannot listen to music this way and invented the CD for the glory of North Korea and so that the world could listen to his haircut without the presence of inferior Western jitter.
Sorry, I just can’t take this guy’s opinion seriously.
My intension was not to stir up anger , he’ll i do not know who is right . I just want to listen to my music the best way possible . And this is just to complex , the more I read the more I need to know. And people like this guy above is a respected person it’s just a joke.
Is the guy respected? I don’t know who he is. He’s got a number of reviews but I certainly disagree with many of his opinions and conclusions in this case.
That’s my point. Someone with a type writer or a mega phone on forums becomes a noted professional.
Whatsthebestforums. It’s is a good place to visit.
wingsounds13 said: I am curious as to what the failure mechanism is. Perhaps it is the reflective medium (aluminum?) delaminating from the plastic inside the pits?
This is my guess, too.
wglenn said: I have noticed that aluminum tends to oxidize rapidly upon exposure to the environment.
It does, but fascinatingly aluminum oxide serves to protect the underlying aluminum. That is, a fine coat of oxidation is a good thing.
wglenn said: Most of you have never heard an intact LP.
It could be the player maybe the optical drive is starting to fail. I have had cd not work in one drive but work in others.
wingsounds13 said: I still consider Perfect sound Forever to be a lie, but apparently I hold higher standards than the FTC. :)
Do you interpret Sony's service mark "Perfect Sound Forever" to literally mean "cannot be improved upon, ever?" and "Will survive the eons, no matter how long?" This appears a tad unreasonable.
How do you interpret "PerfectWave?" (Perfect? No flaws? Cannot be improved on? Really? With which firmware? :) )
How about Martin Logan's "Truth in Sound?" (the whole truth, and nothing but - is this just shy of perfect?)
Acapella's "Simply the Best?" (none better?)
Bowers & Wilkins' "Pure and Simple?" ("pure?," "simple?" OK . . . )
qol's "It's EVERYTHING You've Never Heard Before!" (Wow! I have GOT to hear EVERYTHING which I have never heard. This will be a true experience.)
TAD's "TAD defines [reference sound]?" (At least now we now what the reference is)
dCS "Only the Music?" (no distortion, zero noise - sounds perfect to me!)
How about "Red Bull Gives You Wings?" (If I had only known before getting my pilot's license, hang-gliding, parachuting. A coupe of bucks and you can fly! )
Is Coke truly the Real Thing?
Regarding CDs going bad: From a library of ~2000, I have had 15-25 go bad over time. They were all playable initially. Some were from labels known to have been affected by the CD bronzing phenomenon, and some were not.
Regarding high-res vs. CD: Hi-Res can sound better to my ears, but many hi-res releases do not sound better than the corresponding CDs. A lot has to do with processing and mastering.
Regarding advertising: I’m afraid high-end manufacturers are not excluded from the marketing obsession that has replaced a good deal of engineering. Because product runs are small, prices are higher and quality is less uniform. But sometimes the results are worth it!
I think you have nailed it in all respects.
As to Sony’s 1980’s marketing, we need to remember how truly astounding the technology was at the time. Our current high resolution audio is merely a refinement of CDs, which legitimately can be described as a paradigm shift.
+1 (mike 48 and Elk)
Also need to remember how bad most of the vinyl was at that time.
The term for slogans like “Perfect sound forever” or “cleanest clothes”, etc., is “puffery.” It’s all too common and, while often untrue or at least grossly overstated, is legal. Whether you consider it a “lie” or not is up to you.
Rockwell’s camera reviews can be pretty good. He should stay away from audio, IMHO. For his even less restrained opinion on audiophiles, see http://kenrockwell.com/audio/audiophile.htm
The link that Al posted was bad enough, but in the second link posted by stevem2 this idiot lumps us with pedophiles. I’m sorry (and excuse my French) but his guy is an asshole plain and simple. His website is full of “I’m so wonderful” information it’s sickening. And his audio stripes were earned working as a radio station engineer. Well excuse me, radio has been really pathetic for decades because tin ears like him compress it to the max. And I won’t bother to talk about the “musical content” on commercial radio, so much for being a music lover. I will now step off my soapbox and go back to being an audiophile AND a music lover. Thank you.
That is the whole point of this thread. We all read and only those who really know , can tell what is true or not . As for the little I know to be true , I am wondering about that too.