Windom: Sound Impressions

[Elk]

I understand. A too bright system is remarkably irritating and fatiguing .

[waymanchen11]

My Infinity speakers has level controls on the midrange and tweeters originally. They are variable resister controls that you can adjust according to the acoustics of your room since no two rooms are the same. I found the right resistance for the best balance to my room and replaced the variable controls with super high quality Duelund resisters and much better sound resulted. I like to tinker. I also changed the hook up wire with $1500 worth of Cardas wiring and flat ribbon inductors and Mundorf Caps. Right now I couldn’t find a speaker I like better from listening to quite a few in showrooms. Maybe someday I will find something I like better and change but right now I am really enjoying what I’m hearing.
I’m saying that even some manufactures of speakers give you the option of adjustment from a overly bright system. It is normal.

[lonson]

Yes, my speakers have ribbon tweeters adjustable by resistors and I use Duelund. But I can’t really control the midrange and some of the brightness is located there I believe. I suspect the real culprit is my room more than my equipment but I can’t do much about that.

I’m getting very close with my efforts. . . I think I’ll have the best of Windom and the tonal qualities I like in Snowmass 3.06 in time if I keep at it.

[frankvisser]

But. Try chorus music with Windom. Opening Chorals of Bach Cantatas for instance. Or solo voices. They are more detailed, there is nothing compressed, as it was more or less with any other version before. Snowmass and all the other versions before Windom, sounded a little lean, or let’s say leaner than reality. Now harmonics in treble, overall body and focus in bass are great and much improved, compared with live performances, not vinyl, which is not my reference (other problems than digital playback ). For me and in my system Windom is the biggest improvement ever and I started DSD with 1.21. Honestly, PSA DSD is my best Digital Component I ever owned: with Windom !

[badbeef]

lon - Wondering what happens when you go back to Snowmass after making these changes? If it makes Snowmass sound wrong, then I still vote for “you’re trying to fix something broken”. I get your frustration, probably better than most, however…

[mark-d]

@badbeef

“you’re trying to fix something broken”.

Mr.bad…In most cases I believe it’s the recording that is broken and not the firmware. I have great sounding cd’s through Windom and poor sounding ones too. As the saying goes…you can put lipstick on a pig… but it’s still a pig.

Also…
I think that Windom is such a revealing conduit now for the music to flow from, that, in return for that higher resolution…we now have the privilege of hearing the recordings so-so mix and master…warts and all. Progress can be a slippery slope at times.

[scotte1]

@Elk

I do not find Windom brighter, or with more bass, or greater midrange. Instead, I find it to be just “more.” That is, I hear more in every respect: more color, revealing micro-dynamics, greater bass texture, defined timbre, more air.

[Warning: Long Post Ahead]

FWIW, after extensive listening, I have pretty much settled on this ^^ – In that it mirrors my experience; and conclusions about Windom v. Snowmass 3.0. My summary (subject to the usual subjective disclaimers):

1. Windom does not change the fundamentals in terms of what is on the recording/“in the stream”.

2. If the cymbals shimmer, they shimmer better with Windom – clearer, more details, closer to sounding like the real deal in terms of percussion and the unique vibrations they provide. If the recording of the cymbals is mushy though, they sound mushier with Windom.

3. If the bass percussion is clear and taught, it sounds clearer and “taughter” with Windom – crisper thwacks with more audible “skin” discerned in contact with sticks, palms, etc. If the bass is smeared or not well recorded, it sounds crappy and indistinct. If the percussion is on the track it is more percussive with Windom.

4. Acoustic bass and electric bass also come across as more “consonant” if well recorded. Again, poorly recorded acoustic bass and electric bass sounds poorly recorded.

5. I have similar opinions with regard to other instruments and “sounds” – I just get the sense of hearing more of everything that is on a recording.

6. The sense of space between and around recorded “images”, instruments, singers, etc. is improved – as in more clearly defined and “visible”.

7. The sense of depth and width of the sound field is the most challenging aspect of Windom to my ears. Two observations:

   A. I think the revealing nature and clarity of Windom – its ability to better discern and pick out sound in the space in which it was recorded – can result in a bit of collapse in previously perceived sound stage width. To my ears, certain recordings become more L&R channel oriented and tend to be more anchored to the general location of the speakers. I don’t know if that makes sense or my cause and effect analysis is correct, but there is something about Windom that makes the speakers’ location more apparent with certain recordings; and

   B. On the other hand, the perception of front to back orientation of sounds seems more pronounced to me. Sometimes this experience is revelatory. Other times, I find myself having to get reacquainted with a piece of work that used to come across as a more coherent or unified aural front - if that makes any sense.

Overall, I don’t think Windom is actively steering, skewing, emphasizing or diminishing any particular quality or trait of a recording or my system. Rather, more than Redcloud and Snowmass 3.0 before it, Windom is allowing me to hear more of whatever is on the recording.

My $0.03 cents. I hope its worth that much.

[Edit: PS. For those not enjoying Windom as much as they had hoped, I would encourage you to listen to a lot of different music and a variety of recordings in terms of their quality and musicality before drawing any final conclusions. The fact is that I really like some recordings more than I ever had before. Others sound different, but still great and I have to get used to them. Finally, I like some (very few, but some) recordings less than I used to.]

[lonson]

beef, it should make Snowmass sound darker as I’ve attenuated the treble response and should also sound a bit different as I’ve changed the electrical structure feeding the output tubes. That’s how my system works. But I’m so so so so tired of loading and re-loading OS firmware and I’m very afraid to go back to a bad load. I’m pretty sure I have Windom right and I needed to make system changes. There are two clear consistently different “sounds” from this firmware that I’ve encountered over the last two weeks, and I’m currently experiencing the better of the two.

Anyway, I’m bowing out of this and sticking with what I have for now and if I can’t take the residual fatigue I’ll try Snowmass 3.06 again. No listening today, I have a day with my Dad over at his side of Cleveland, 55 miles away.

[badbeef]

Mark-d - interesting, as that was another mindset I had talked myself into during the first week.
“I guess it is just more revealing, and so I’m hearing how bad the bad recordings are”. After I got the load I have now, that went away. It IS still more revealing than Snowmass, but not irritatingly so.

Lon and all - I’m truly not trying to be a PITA here. If it hadn’t changed for me, I’d still be saying the same stuff I said the whole first week. Like the majority, I just want you to hear what I’m hearing, and the Problem is a New and Fascinating one that would be nice to get to the bottom of.

A Jazznut noted above, I wish it were possible for those unsure to put a “correct sounding” DS/Windom load in their system. Then we would know something tangible. WAY easier (and cheaper) said than done. As it is, we can’t really be sure if we’re comparing apples to apples.

[lonson]

Well, you are being a PITA. I’m sorry, I don’t think I can get a different load than the two that I have and I’m done trying. I think I DO have a correct load and I’ve had to make some tuning changes to maximize it for me. Glad you didn’t have to. End of story for me. I don’t think you have to keep advocating for me to do something different, or seem to be telling me I’m doing something wrong…

[badbeef]

Apologies🙏🏻

I’m not saying YOU are doing anything wrong. I had absolutely no control over what happened with me. Unfortunately I can only guess at what you’re hearing by what you write, and it is so much like what I wrote the first week, that it pains me, is all. I’ll stop now.

[RonP]

Lon
I was really getting sick of going back and forth, Snowmass to Windom, Yale to Windom, etc.
Each time, I heard nothing about Windom that I liked better than SM.
Then, Windom just seemed to bloom in my system. And it seems that once Windom has filled all the necessary nooks and crannies of the DSD, I can go back and forth to SM and Windom comes up consistently better every time.
I agree with what someone (I think Elk) said, that Windom is more of everything. I notice no exaggeration anywhere. Just better.

[Phil]

Yes, I agree with Elk.
More of everything.
Awesome

[bruce-in-philly]

Honestly, I don’t get why there is a percentage of folks who don’t like Windom… or are having load issues for that matter.

I have to believe there are system-specific issues and not the DAC. I know from being in this hobby for forty years plus, that system synergy is very important… OK, but to blame the DAC?

I have chosen equipment that say, balance tonality… dull equipment with bright equipment for example, but as long as I was buying high end stuff, I rarely blamed one component. I did once, when I followed a Robert Harley recommendation in Stereophile to send my Sonic Frontiers DAC back for a factory upgrade… that was just downright awful… but the sound difference was extreme.

Look, it is OK to go back to an earlier version to re-balance your system synergy. But I honestly don’t blame the DAC… Windom sounds better over speakers and my expensive headphones, and what I hear over both delivery systems is the exact same.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

[lonson]

Well, I’m hearing more of everything too, and I’ve said above I think that Windom is a significant improvement and that I need to tune my system as one of the “more of everything” that Windom is revealing is a bright character. I myself am not blaming the DAC or the software.

I’ve done the loading and reloading protocol so often and I get two results consistently so I think I have the load everyone is so excited about. And I can see why they are excited. All our systems are different and mine seems to exhibit a brighter nature with Windom and I accept that and am working to reduce the fatigue that is bringing to listening sessions.

Windom: a step up, more of everything, a bit fatiguing for me and it’s not the first time an OS upgrade has set me to tuning.

[yacheah]

I have gone back to Snowmass 3.0.0 .

In my system and for most of music I listen to, it is more musical than Windom. The musical flow is just better.

Windom is more hi res and cleaner sounding but in my case, I didn’t quite enjoy the “more” I was hearing mostly, except for the bass. My equivalent tube amp analogy (even though I do not use one) is Snowmass 3.0.0 sounds like Conrad Johnson and Windom sounds like Audio Research - it’s just a matter of preference.

I do get what most are saying about its positive traits and I wanted to like it for them. But then you like what you like and that’s it. It does sound great on good recordings though.

Snowmass 3.0.0 is the first firmware update that I feel comfortable staying with and hence Windom the first one I do not feel is a likeable improvement for me.

So it’s back to Snowmass for me and no more futzing around and FOMO.

Till the next update…

[oddeophile]

If you’re having issues with Windom loading or sounding to your satisfaction try the new download version on the website. I found it last night. Totally different way and separated by windows and Mac download versions.

I did the Mac download last night following instructions on the pdf included and a complete different sonic improvement for me.

SM 3.0.0 first for baseline. Very euphonic and as described by yacheah above very much like CJ house sound of old. Loaded the new download Mac version on a new SD card formatted and restarted. Wow. Finally what my expectations are for Windom. Beautiful presentation with overtone colors galore and finely detailed yet the glare and upper mids through top end slight hardness gone. Sweet.

I had previously tried Dirk’s instructions to play it for at least a few hundred hrs and although improved still was not quite right.

This time right outta the card and fresh very, very nice.