Could I ask for a favor. I’m going crazy moving speakers around trying to see if i can get Geddy’s voice to come forward. Sounds like if he were singing inside a bucket.
Similar with Qobuz, A HD, SACD, Regular CD. On the fancy transport, on the OPPO, on the Theta.
Other tracks (my test ones) sound fantastic with great soundstage air and depth. (Lofgren Keith dont go live, Krall California Dreaming, Peer Lord Zuthula. etc).
If it aint the mix, where should I move my speakers?
I have a similar problem: on some recordings the lead singer is centered in the same plane as the speakers, while on others he/she is recessed while various instruments sound as though they are closer. My room is weird so I haven’t solved this by moving speakers (yet). But in the last couple of days I am noticing this problem on fewer recordings. It may be b/c I now have the polarity on the DS Mk2 set properly. If you are using I2S inputs on a Mk2, try that.
Thanks for the input and kudos on the improvements!
First thing I checked was polarity/phase. My system is very picky with phase and it lets you know with the sounds of the bottom of hell (the Infinity Servo Controller sends a signal that makes the woofers go into oscillation and then trips).
Since I changed the preamp a month or so ago I check to make sure it was non inverting (I had checked when I plugged it but started questioning everything).
I have moved he woofer towers, the mid/high towers, front back, toe in straight to out, closer and further apart, moved my listening position.
The manual on my speakers recommends 150% (distance to ears 1.5 times distance between speakers). I have found that I like them way better at 80-83%.
My 0.2 cents.
- Increase a little bit the distance between the speakers (I’m close to equilateral triangle with 90% tweeter to tweeter vs tweeter to listening position)
- Less toe in as possible, like straight towards the rear wall
- If a diffusor is present at the center of the front wall, try moving it forward into the room
Some pics might help to better understand your room.
Straight right now, going to try 90%.
Please note the percentage I’m measuring from my Mid/High wings. The woofers are set following square root of center of drivers formula (edit: NORDOST).
I am building a removable diffuser section to mount in front of the projection screen (room is used 90% for music). Screen is quite large at 120"
Room is 14 wide 27 deep and 11 high
For a sanity check do you have a decent set of headphones you can try? I don’t know of an artificial way to pull vocals forward. You do have me curious though and will see what I get out of my system tonight. It’s been quite the while since I sat back and enjoyed 2112.
only headphones i have are bluetooth
Let me know what you find. Losten to Passage to Bangkok first (please). he he he
Just to do en experiment. Try one of the diffusors I see on the rear wall, on the front wall at the center. Then move it back and forth to find out how the voices change.
If you have the problem jut with one song, the culprit could be that recording.
I’m listening to the track as I write this.
It sounds like he is pushed back on an imaginary stage behind my main speakers, with the drums pushed even further back. I think that is the nature of the recording, and no amount of speaker repositioning will fix that.
His voice does not sound like he is singing in a bucket to me.
Thanks much! Its a horrible sound stage. Glad to read its not me. Back hurts from moving stuff around.
My pleasure. It’s been a while since I listened to that track. I’m also glad to save your back from possible injury.
I’m likely hearing the same as you, but it’s not just Bangkok and not just Geddy’s vocals. Neal’s drums are similarly veiled. Other cuts aren’t as bad but the album in general seems to be that way. I’m a couple of weeks into a Qobuz trail so sampled cuts from several other albums and found them to be better to much better.
Listening on headphones is a whole lot different. It’s like 2112 was mixed for cans with Geddy’s vocals not necessarily forward but not hidden in the back and muted.
“you have entered the The Twilight Zone”, “Beyond this World strange things are known”. Don’t do what I did and change Amps to fix this problem.
“But seriously folks”, I have the same problem. On some recordings, the phantom center is locked in the middle where it’s supposed to be, while on others, it’s spread out a bit. Especially vocal sibilance’s. Repositioning Speakers is the cheapest and 1st route to try of course. On my big Cornwalls, the phantom center was always there from day one but it could never be razor sharp in between the Speakers like on a pair of LS50’s or a decent pair of Bookshelf or skinny Tower Speakers.
Not that my Orchard Audio Ultra’s can’t do imaging, soundstage, and all the other Audiophile good stuff. It’s just not able to give me a good phantom center unless I revert to small Speakers again.
Also on a 1960’s recording where the vocals are mono, they are always smack dab in between the two Speakers regardless of what Amp I use. For example Cream’s Disraeli Gears.
Switching to the Black Ice F100’s pretty much fixed that and with it, now I have an even better soundstage and imaging.
Room treatment is another thing that helped me achieve a more focused phantom center.
A friends Cab ride back to the Airport from Schaumburg, Ilinois last weekend. And she’s a huge Rush fan, Can you guess which is her favourite one ?
Thanks for the feedback. I find that situation on many albums. Try anything from Saga for example. At home it’s hard to enjoy except as background in the car or with the earphones it rocks.
Tried the 90% somewhat similar to 83%
Just out of curiosity I played Bangkok again this evening on the AVR in a couple of surround modes. I don’t know why it made such a difference but several modes like Dolby helped open up the sound stage and bring the center image forward.
If I play it on my movie system using Dolby surround music it gets better.
Having headphones and/or a theater option is so nice to have at the house. Sounds like fun.
And, that’s a fairly deep Rush cut. I’m impressed! I’ll have to goof around and report back, but intuitively, you might want to pick another song by another band (as you’ve done). I’ve not heard anybody using any Rush song for proper speaker placement.
I’ll try to be more fun if I reply again. Hahaha
So don’t get to “Wound Up” about it ?