These are all very different amps. The M1200’s are great where you need power. The tube amps you mentioned aren’t as powerful. The McIntosh is a legend in it’s own right for a reason but it’s only 75 watts. The Prima Luna isn’t even on the same page. Listen to both if you can.
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Isn’t there the saying that only the first watt matters? Especially if the amps are all tubes? I listen to my tunes up to 85dp max. Up until 2019, I was a happy camper with a pair of LS50s and a Yamaha integrated, once I’ve purchased the M700 though, I opened a path that I glad and regret I made at the same time haha.
And would you elaborate more on why Prima Luna isn’t even on the same page? Thanks.
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Prima Luna is a marketing creation of Kevin Deal from Upscale Audio. If you want a product made in the same factory and want to save money but get great sound look at Cayin products. In my opinion it’s ok gear but over priced with poor resale prices.
Prima Luna has some of the best resale value on the market compared to most…for good reason…they punch way above their weight in sound and build quality. I owned a PL Dialogue Premium preamp that was a superb value for money.
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Prima Luna products are reviewed well, and measure nicely.
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Be careful here. Knowing the music that you like and the room where you will listen to it, chose the speakers first. Then and only then, look at what amps match up with it. The 700s are incredibly versatile beasts and can easily match up with almost any speaker. The Prima Lunas are extremely flexible if you’re into tube rolling. Its very personal and there is only your right answer. Do you still have the LS50s? The first pic in this thread is a pair driven by PASS! Enjoy the ride friend!
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Thanks for the tip about my LS50s, those had since been re-assigned to my HT surround duties after I bought a pair of Kanta 2s. Those KEFs are a killer for price, however there is that upper treble grain I can never seem to get rid of, never bothered me that much, just that it could be smoother…
I’m already 100% happy with my current set up with the M700s in the mix. I could live with it indefinitely. I’ve never come across a problem where I sometimes would reluctant to sit in my music chair because a planned 1hr/album listening session would put me in a trance that extents to 3-4 hours…
I guess that’s a nice problem to have.
Really not looking for what’s missing or what’s best, just want to look for a different flavor and explore, and want to know which tube amps, including the M1200 of course, in the same price range I should try first.
All the best!
I’ve heard two of the three, but I suspect pretty even fight among the three (none clearly much better or much worse than the others). Only way to know will be to listen to see which you like the best.
Unfortunately, you can easily find dealers that carry two of the three (two such dealers within 20 miles of me), but not all three, so you’ll be left to ask questions like this. Good luck
Kzk, which two have you listened? out of which gave you a wider and deeper sound stage and better instrument/vocal separation?
At this price range, I’d expect all three sound fantastic tonally, but the main differences would be in sound stage and separation and depth.
The M1200 will get you the tube sound you are looking for. I can’t compare to other tube amps but the input tubes on the M1200 give it the edge over M700 as does the extra power. I’m going out on a limb but I would say the M1200 resembles the sound of a BHK 250 more than it resembles the M700. Good luck on your search!
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So I’ve heard lots of Prima Luna including one you mentioned and also lots of McIntosh (probably one you mentioned but can’t say for sure). Across many sets of speakers too.
Both are very popular in US and extremely widely available at hifi dealers. In fact I can’t think of an amp manufacturer more available than those two.
If you are interested in these two brands, I’m probably not the best person to sell you on them. They have lots of fans and my views are only based on my preferences and I don’t want to offend.
That said, both have what I’d call warm to very warm sonic tonality. Some people really like that. But I’ve listened carefully to dozens of amp brands and for my tastes (emphasize that, only speaking for me) I can always find things at price point that sound much better to me.
However, with forward sounding speakers (Eg, BW, Focal, Paradigm etc) they can work well imo. I also don’t prefer those types of speakers but that’s another story.
I don’t think pairing those two brands with speakers like Harbeth, classic Spendor, classic Sonus Faber, etc would be a great match. But again, just one person’s opinion.
My guess having never heard them but having read reviews here of owners is that m1200 will be more neutral than the other two, and that I’d likely prefer them to the others (but for me that isn’t too high a bar for reasons mentioned)
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January 1st started the burn in process for a P3, February started burn in on a pair of M1200’s upgraded from M700’s, and now in May, the DSD OS upgrade Sunlight, and the addition of an S300 burning in on ceiling monitors. Needless to say the upgrades are providing a new listening experience almost every time i turn on the system as the synergy settles in with burn in time. The trade up from M700 to M1200 gave the system the reserve power and headroom it needed to produce high dynamic rendering at all volume levels. We find so many tracks can now be played at higher volume, revealing more of the file, without sounding loud, a real joy hearing into the track. We knew the M1200’s power would bring the needed headroom, but i would have to say the most surprising element was the addition of Sunlight as the M1200’s were coming into their own 4 months into burn in. The combination of power and Sunlight’s lower noise floor is evident in the realism. This combination really advanced the system to a new level. Very happy with all the PS Audio gear. Thanks again guys.
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Kzk,
Thanks for the valuable input, I would only laugh at my own life choices whatever that might be instead of taken offence.
Prima Luna and McIntosh are safe bets and easy to liquidate if cash is needed, I actually looked at DOGE audio but their power amps are just too big for my space, and I’m concerned about their 2nd hand market.
Looks like so far M1200 should still be 1st on my list, given my experience with M700 and is the cheapest to tube roll.
I do not have the two tube amps you mentioned, but my previous two amps were BAT VK120 monoblocks and Vincent ST800 hybrid monoblocks. The M1200 sounds more neutral and faster than those. They drive my big speakers much better too. BAT has a better soundstage especially the depth, but like many tube amps, the bass is less defined with no layers. Female voices are magic too. But overall I prefer M1200.
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I love my M1200. I believe they’re great pair of hybrid mono-block amps for the money. They remain cool even under heavy load speakers like Martin Logan 13a. I’m sure you’ll find them equally pleasurable.
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M1200 + Martin Logan 13a Electrostats have been amazing for me. The M1200 are now connected to BHK Preamp upstream all powered by P15. My source is a simple Tidal MQA via Apple TV. Holly Cole, Diana Krall, Chantal Chamberland, & Sara Bareilles all come to life when I listen. I also love looking at their album cover on HDMI Hi Res screen. I feel lucky.
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Sounds great! The electro stats are very revealing! You will find upgrading your source especially with the 1200’s and the BHK preamp will be a rewarding experience. I have a Oppo 203 I started with streaming Roon. I modified the Oppo and now only use it for CD and Home Theater. I went to a Mac Mini w/Matrix Spdif 2. Then I went to a Roon Nucleus, and now a Auralic Aries streamer! Each step of the way has been more rewarding than the other and the transparency has increased each step! Enjoy the journey and enjoy the music!
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Hi Paul. Appreciate the thought and input. It looks like I’m following the same foot step that you’ve already done. A couple months ago I upgraded my CD -DVD 4K player to a SONY UBP-X1100ES mainly because my older player had no SACD capability. I didn’t have any HiRes CD but wanted to try to see if I can get better sound. I didn’t know which to try so I tried 2 of the Octave Record HiRes CD (Clandestine Amigo, Audiophile Master Vol 1), which were great. I looked at one OPPO player 1 year ago, very nice but out of production and asking price is steap now. I really don’t want to accumulate more LPs nor CD or DVDs so I’ve been figuring out a way to improve my source as you eluded. So far I’m enjoying TIDAL via native Apple TV MQA native App. I believe the bottle neck is at the Marantz AVP 7705 at 24 bit 192 kHz. I guess I’m lazy and don’t want a wall full of media, and I don’t like getting up very often. Thought of building a Nucleus and getting a lifetime ($500) subscription to Roon and perhaps switching to Qobuz, but I need a better DAC and/or streamer. Some of the Auralic or Bartok ($18K) are just out of my reach, so I have my eyes on PS’ DS DAC MK2 when it does come out. My only gripe with all these high end DAC Streamers is they should have an HDMI Out to view albums and unit settings and configuration instead of a tiny 4-5 inch touch screen or using an iPad App. I like looking through the album/artist info on a large screen. Makes it easy to read and some of the private video concert simply add more realism to any music level. But I’m not sure if an HDMI would inject unwanted Noise into the audio. McIntosh has a new DVD SACD player (MVP 901), non 4K, no streamer, but upscales movies to Ultra HD, and it’s supposed to have an OPPO Chip, per one reviewer, and has their Quad Music DAC found in their expensive players. Still doing a lot of considering. Want you to know your engaging comments have been enlightening or reassuring. Wishing you a wonderful day.
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Lifetime subs haven’t been $500 for some time now. I don’t recall the current price, but I want to say it’s $700. I might have pulled the trigger on one at the end of my 90-day trial if it had still been $500, but I can’t justify the current price.
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Thanks for the update. It’s been at least a year since I looked at Roon’s service plan. $700 is steep. Until now, I don’t know if I need so much detail about each musical production. I’ve been content with TIDAL album covers and basic information. When I listen, I focus more on the content or lyrics and emotions created by the artists rather than the story behind the artist/production, but that’s just me. I’m sure others enjoy their music according taste. Thanks for engaging.