Anyone using power conditioning upstream of Powerplant?


#1

I am thinking about picking up a Shunyata Hydra Alpha 2 power conditioner to use between my outlet and Powerplant. I have a couple of questions:

1. Is using a power conditioner overkill if i already have a Powerplant?

2. Has anyone used power conditioning to feed their Powrplants? If so, what were your results?

3. Has anyone tried the Hydra Alpha products?



Thank you.


#2

That doesn’t make much sense, because the P3 already does the job and more: it regenerates the power. I believe that it is better not to place any “obstructions” between the walloutlet and the P3. What’s the reason you’re thinking about this setup?


#3

For my system, I find power filters restrict the dynamics on a power amplifier. Power regenerators do the opposite, they maximise dynamics. Unfortunately a power regenerator can generate some noise on the AC line.



The answer in my system is to have a p10 fed unfiltered from the mains, with the power amp fed directly off one dedicated p10 outlet. The PWD and W4S server are fed from a different p10 outlet into a filter. Noise harvesters upstream and downstream of the p10 also help. I have found this setup works best for me.


#4

That is more or less the same setup that I am using, where the filter is a PB feeding the PWD or the server/library. Noise harvesters at the wall and on a couple of points on the system outlets after the P10.


#5

I use a custom made Blue Circle BC6000 BKS ( Blue Knight Special). It’s three standard BC6000s in two stainless steel chassis. ( Bottom two items in the rack)



According to its maker, “It’s a crazy amount of filtration, enough to do the entire neighbourhood.” Why? Well, why not.



The P5 came two years later to complement the PWT.


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#6

Thanks folks. So it seems thoughts are divided on using power filtration before the Powerplant. Intuitively, I felt the same way as @wybe, that the Powerplant is regenerating the power anyway so really it almost doesn’t even matter what the quality of power is coming from the wall. However, I think I ready from Paul himself that filtration could help because then the Powerplant would not have to “work as hard”???


#7

I have an older Ultimate Outlet ahead of my Power Plant Premier as recommended by PS. I THINK I hear a difference, but it’s awfully hard to tell!


#8

I wouldn’t unless I had an opportunity to listen in my system first.


#9

I believe the outlet on the Powerbase offers filtration and the recommendation is to plug the Powerplant into it. Seems there are mixed opinions on that approach, so as rossop says try to get an audition in your system.


#10

@dbturbo2 - that’s the recommendation, and it applies particularly if you have equipment that is not isolated by the Powerplant and is otherwise on the house circuits where Powerplant noise might be found. In cases where everything that matters is connected to the Powerplant it may be less of an issue to go PB > Powerplant. In any event, let your ears decide.


#11

@blueknight: that’s one nice lookin’ setup! Are all the components with the blue circles… Blue Circles?


#12

Was that rhetorical question a Rhetorical Question? :smiley:


#13

@wglenn Yes. All custom made from their custom shop as per my custom requirements which

are usually customary. :smiley:



#14

Over and over again, time after time you guys are repeatedly redundant again. :smiley:


#15
Over and over again, time after time you guys are repeatedly redundant again. :D

I could not have said it better myself.
I could not have said it better myself.


( Is there an echo in here?) :-S

#16

Yes, indeed… But depends on your definition of power conditioning. This is broad terminology. My first line of “power conditioning” & defense is a Richard Gray 6KW (220 to 120V) Isolation Transformer to mechanically disconnect my system from the rest of the electrical world and all of its electrical pollution. It also provides some level of lighting strike protection, the theory being a surge would only travel on one side of the primary winding, and never making it to the secondary. Hope it’s never put to the test (however, on my power meter outside I also have a large current rated surge shunt clamp which I rent monthly from the power company). Parallelled to the Isolation Transformer is the Richard Gray 600S Parallel Choke giving me plenty of current on demand. This “IsoGray” system in turn feeds two P5’s, ie one P5 dedicated solely to each tube monoblock amplifier, and one P500, which feeds all of my source components. So yes, there are options upstream of a P whatever…


#17

Very nice systems Jaynemo and Blueknight. Hard to see how either of you could have any more power problems at all!


#18

I will pay only if I ever have to move the X-former again-at 130 lbs-ouch… (Oh and I stand to correct myself-it’s a 4KW).


#19

@jaynemo I am not going to comment on the RGP parallel chokes because my opinion of these is perhaps well known - and besides - if it works, use it!



I will comment on the isolation transformer and the notion that “mechanically disconnect my system from the rest of the electrical world and all of its electrical pollution”. Sorry, but this just isn’t true, you are coupled magnetically to the power, all its problems and pollutions - and just added another pollution to the mix.



While it is true that an isolation transformer decouples the hard wire connection between the transformer on the electrical utility feeding your home - which basically gives you two transformers in series - and it disconnects you physically from your neighbors - but it doesn’t disconnect you from anything they do or that happens on the line.



The magnetic coupling of an isolation transformer is 1:1 meaning that whatever happens on the primary side is passed along to the secondary side. The only reduction possible in this arrangement is from common mode issues if the isolation transformer is connected to your 220 volt side - which it is likely it is not. Connected to your single ended 120 volt single phase power, you get little if any reduction of common mode noises.



Lastly, isolation transformers tend to add distortion under load. The good news is that apparently your RGP transformer is huge at 6kW and you probably never demand enough from it to increase distortion.



I think it is a product that perhaps helps just a little for eliminating the high frequency stuff that can’t pass through the transformer, but other than that I don’t see a lot of benefit.


#20

Interesting question.



I’ve done three types of filtering. First are parallel filter chokes, Hammond 193L and 193M as suggested in a number of threads on the Audio Asylum a few years back and I believe are similar to those used in the RGPs.



The second type are ferrite clamps on power cords of appliances and other equipment that have SMPS’s in the house… microwave, washer, dryer, DVD players, TVs, all the extension cords where phone / tablet / PC power supplies or chargers are plugged in, etc.



The third are a couple types of parallel filters, a couple from Bruce Brisson’s DIY Audio Kits and several Audioprism Quietlines (I suspect the Noise Harvesters would work well here too). One of the DIY Audio Kits filters is on the same AC circuit as the P10, the others are on other circuits in the house, placed somewhat by ear… I originally used a few more than now and did not like that as much.



While the P10 made a HUGE difference in the sonics of my system and improved the sound quality above anything I had before, adding other conditioning upstream still produced significant additional improvements, especially when applied at the sources of problems (i.e. chokes on the cords of noise-producing appliances and equipment).



Still, they are secondary improvements that are not as significant as that produced by the P10.



I also tried the P10 plugged into a PS Audio Soloist and preferred it direct into the wall, which gives me greater dynamics and bass power with only a tiny increase in noise.



Sadly, I don’t have dedicated lines in this house yet… I did them in a previous house and was VERY impressed with the improvements. I suspect dedicated lines plus the P10 would be a very effective match.



Greg in Mississippi