Artwork not always showing up on your OSD has been my experience with the PerfectWave DAC Mk2 as well. I get about 80-90% success rate, waiting for up to 10 seconds for the artwork to appear. This happens with DLNA, and perhaps more so with Roon. I deal with it, because to me the artwork is just a bonus. I more concerned with the sound quality.
Now on SQ, that’s a pickle. I’m guessing the DS might be your first DAC that is good enough to actually make you hear the difference. Enjoy playing around with it.
I appreciate the welcome. Thanks you for pointing me to Google. I was able to find my Google machine in the closet.
As for the sound, I am hoping hat this is indeed the case @frankverhoeven and the DS is the best I have ever had.
As for the artwork, is that too much to ask? Below is the artwork on my other DAC / renderer in another system of mine - Cary Audio DMS-500. Used with Roon. Not only it comes up 100% of the time instantaneously, but it is also beautiful and customizable.
I find it interesting how much of a fuss is being made over the artwork display, as though it’s a big deal (or, almost, a deal-breaker) when listening to one of the best DACs ever made.
My DS runs completely dark; the display is turned off. I’ve even had a notion of taping over the blue logo light. All other components have been similarly darkened.
If I want to know what album is playing, I look at my iPad/iPhone/iMac while running Roon. Or, I look at the iTunes/PureMusic display on my computer. Heck, my eyes aren’t good enough to read the DS screen at listening distance, anyway. I’ve gotta get right up on the display and whip out my readers.
These are my personal preferences, of course. I just can’t quite see what all the hubbub is about. Close eyes… listen.
Also, I’m in the camp of “Roon damages music”. It’s not the DS’ issue. I’ve recently found a way to make Roon’s output more acceptable, but haven’t written about it here.
@rhamazon2suddenlink-net I am all ears in terms of what you have done with Roon to optimize playback on DS. Thank you!
As for the Artwork, I disagree. I don’t think it is too much to ask for a $6,800 MSRP device. Just my personal tastes, silly or not. I often time prefer to put my iPad down, listen to music and just look at the OSD to see what is playing. The DS is on my headphones setup, and I sit pretty close to it (Focal Utopia cans, and Headamp GS-X mkII Headphones Amp)
Rob H. said
I find it interesting how much of a fuss is being made over the artwork display, as though it's a big deal (or, almost, a deal-breaker) when listening to one of the best DACs ever made.
I, too, am surprised instant video gratification holds such sway in an audio system. For me, sound quality trumps all. But others hold different values.
My displays all remain off. I have no need to look at the screen to know what is playing as, oddly enough, I already know; I am the one who decided what is playing.
I find all displays visual noise. I also dislike the large power buttons and would prefer a much smaller, less bright LED or, gasp, a soothing 4,500K small incandescent bulb.
A gentle red LED would be a better choice especially as it does not destroy night vision, but blue has come to mean quality. This is because red LEDs were the easiest and cheapest to make. Blue and white were very expensive, and thus found only on pricier products. The price is no longer an issue, but blue now rules.
LightDims are a wonderful product. Click. In addition to precut shapes, they also sell sheets. These cut down the amount of light produced by LEDs, indicator lights, etc.
Aside from simple personal preference, I think one’s room arrangement has a lot to do with how much one values the artwork display. Like some others, I run my PS equipment with all displays turned off – my audio rack is far enough from my chair and at an angle such that I can’t really see the displays while listening. And I don’t need to. But if one is close enough to actually make use of the displays, things can be different.
My artwork pops up in 5-6 seconds. I imagine there are technical reasons why other DACs can display it faster; maybe someone can explain. But the SQ of the DS is so good that I will happily put up with this limitation (it’s not like you have to wait for the artwork to appear before the music starts).
I like having the album art displayed, not for me but for my wife as she passes by and glances at the DS display. Having never had a DAC / Renderer that displayed artwork, I am not troubled by the slowness of the load process.
Having said that, I have noticed that Tidal as played on my OpenHome emulation via Lumin App does not always show the artwork. I have figured out that the artwork is sent once by Tidal for an album and that the DS / Bridge scrubs the artwork off for each track. So, consequently the artwork does not show up for future tracks of the same album.
@rhxxxx I am all ears in terms of what you have done with Roon to optimize playback on DS. Thank you!
As for the Artwork, I disagree. I don’t think it is too much to ask for a $6,800 MSRP device. Just my personal tastes, silly or not. I often time prefer to put my iPad down, listen to music and just look at the OSD to see what is playing. The DS is on my headphones setup, and I sit pretty close to it (Focal Utopia cans, and Headamp GS-X mkII Headphones Amp)
For the record, I never called your personal preferences “silly”. In fact, I took care to mention that my preference for component darkness was exactly that, my “personal preference”.
As for improving Roon’s SQ, I’m still testing my ‘solution’, and given the design of the DS, it doesn’t even make sense. But it does work well enough that I renewed my subscription for Roon only today, whereas I had been planning on letting it lapse.
@Elk Thanks for the link to the blackout sheets. I now have them on order.
I should add: Back in the early days of the DS (or was it the PWD-II?), one reviewer mentioned that the SQ improved slightly when the display is off. I’ve never A/B’d the phenomenon, since dark is my preference, but it kinda makes sense to me.
Hi thyname, it’s Ken from MD. There is a certain amount of flakiness about the DS display with regard to displaying artwork. I have always suspected all of these behaviors are related to prioritized activities in the DS processing of audio workflow processes first, followed by artwork…just a guess on my part.
It would make sense that, upon selection of music, Roon immediately goes into a mode of streaming data from the source, followed by decoding music streams to PCM, buffering music content output to the Bridge2, before resolving artwork for the display. So much of the latency is attributed to downloading, rendering, Roon output buffering, network transmission, and input buffering in the Bridge. It would seem that high resolution music content would naturally contribute to the overhead in end to end processing and bandwidth latencies. Now add MQA decoding to that list or processes, but perhaps less digital filtering inside of the FPGA.
I’m not sure where exactly artwork rendering enters the process. Perhaps it is requested at the end of the music content flow on the same workflow thread, or alternatively it’s managed concurrently on a separate thread and request. I’d expect music content takes priority over artwork, or something manages both processes allowing music to proceed while the artwork task continues.
I’ve always suspected the flakiness must have something to do with a failed image render, request timeout, or some other type of request failure. I hope the PS team has a strategy to make the artwork more reliable. I’ve not really experimented with it yet, but I think it would be interesting to experiment with increasing the Roon album art cache to see if that provides optimization after first request.
On sound quality…I fall in the camp that thinks there’s a slight loss of quality when using Roon, compared to MControlHD to Bridge. MControlHD being slightly more dynamic, and open for some reason. It’s a small but noticeable difference…I’m not sure why. Roon’s usability features are still good enough for me to choose to use it most of the time, but when I want the very best sound, I use MControlHD.
I suspect you did not spend much, if any, time lurking before posting to get a sense of this forum’s congenial mindset. We routinely hold differing viewpoints and discuss them. A couple of us suggested you search the Internet when you stated you were unaware of Roon’s compromised sound - not to be insulting - but because we know information on this topic is readily available. Have you looked into this? Have you learned anything you can share?
Please note no one has criticized you for finding a quick video display important. We have simply expressed a different view. Neither position is correct or wrong, just different.
If you look around you will find we routinely take PS Audio to task for things we do not like, including me. We make strong suggestions for improvement. We also praise those things we feel the company does extremely well. We also argue about what falls into each category.
I hope you find a solution to your issue, or that you decide the sound quality is good enough to render any issue with the display irrelevant. Keep in mind PS Audio has a very generous return policy. If you are unhappy with the unit you can simply take it back and move on.
So now to the most important question: what do you think of the sound?
@Elk I get your point, and will not post anymore until I browse around here more. You are right!
I just got the DS yesterday, and was trying to figure out some very simple things. It just drives me crazy when certain deficiencies in some products are simply easily dismissed by the fanboys. There is nothing wrong with admitting the display is clunky and imperfectly functioning. That’s all.
In terms of the sound, still early, and I need to let it burn it more. From what I hear, I think I am going to like it. It sounds very similar to a DAC I used to have - Holo Spring KTE - very similar sound signature.
So without Roon and without its own app, how do you guys stream Tidal through Bridge II?
In terms of the sound, still early, and I need to let it burn it more. From what I hear, I think I am going to like it.
Excellent! I found the sound immediately appealing, others need more time with the unit. As already mentioned, many feel the unit needs a long period of break-in.
It just drives me crazy when certain deficiencies in some products are simply easily dismissed by the fanboys.
Some of us expressed our opinion the display is of little interest. No one said you were wrong for finding it important. No one here "dismissed" the issue.
On the other hand, we all appreciate your annoyance when a product does not respond as you expect. It can also be frustrating when you seek help and an enthusiast forum dismisses your concerns as non-existent and a figment of your personal failings. If your last comment is expressing this alone, I’ll stop pushing you on the point.
If you stick with PS Audio you will find their products to be an astoundingly good value, backed with incredibly good customer support, designed and manufactured by people who truly love audio and honestly care. You will also find some of the units have some quirks, some of which are nigh ridiculous to some of us.
It probably helps I own a collection of Ducati superbikes. I am accustomed to quirks and being a bit uncomfortable.
In summary, we are delighted to have you here. We welcome being challenged. We like PS Audio being pushed to make the best products it can and to keep all of us happy.
@Elk I get your point, and will not post anymore until I browse around here more. You are right!
I just got the DS yesterday, and was trying to figure out some very simple things. It just drives me crazy when certain deficiencies in some products are simply easily dismissed by the fanboys. There is nothing wrong with admitting the display is clunky and imperfectly functioning. That’s all.
In terms of the sound, still early, and I need to let it burn it more. From what I hear, I think I am going to like it. It sounds very similar to a DAC I used to have - Holo Spring KTE - very similar sound signature.
Enough with the “fanboy” comments…
The Holo Spring KTE sounds quite a bit different than the DirectStream. The Holo Spring sounds best in NOS mode and the DirectStream sounds much different than NOS DACs.
@pmc7027 Much appreciate the welcome and understanding my frustration. For some of us this is a lot of money, thus expecting it to be 100% perfect. At the end of the day, sound quality is what matters most, and other cosmetic things can eventually be forgotten/ forgiven.
I am reading through PS Audio stuff and continue to do so. I did not realize that a Bridge III is in the works that is NOT Roon Ready, and also Ocatve to compete with Roon. Very interesting.
Over the next few days I will move the DS to my speakers setup. As I am going to have the XLR outs directly to Amp, would I use the RCA outs to Subwoofer? I read the manual says the RCA and XLR not recommended to be used simultaneously
@speed-racer How do you know? Do you have the Holo Spring KTE? Or just reading in the Internet?
I was just expressing what I hear over such a short period of time I have had the DS. If my impressions are wrong, so be it. I have had the top level III KTE (Kitsune Tuned Edition) for a while, and know what NOS does and is on it. I had gone the whole nine yards with it, using Singxer SU-1 to feed Spring over I2S. I even had the Singxer SU-1 modded to accept a linear power supply (LPS-1 from UpTone). I may not be very familiar how a not properly burned in DS sound, but I am very familiar with Holo Spring. I used to have your Mimby too. Quite a while ago.
