This doesn’t measure up either😝
The Kids are Alright🤘🏼
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thanks elk. i echo that sentiment 100%.
as i wrote before, i would also go one step further and loan the asr community a p12. that would open many eyes over there, i am sure.
they attack a popular brand (psa is not the only one, there is schiit, akg, sennheiser etc), the immediate reaction from the other camp is to show this condescending attitude towards asr. and the cycle repeats. and warmongering wins, as it always does.
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I doubt either tribe wants to learn anything from the other.
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N’eer the twain shall meet.
We’re a tough crowd 
think so?
it was probably early 90s or may be late 80s when i was starting audio. i remember memorizing all the english magazines from cover to cover and subscribing to japanese ones only to look at the pictures. if there was a source like asr back then, i would have devoured it as well, either for information or entertainment purposes. audio press is much worse today with a notable lack second opinions and bad reviews.
i assume that the average age of psa forum member >> asr forum member, average experience of psa forum member is also >> asr forum member. so i see no reason why more people should not join our side of things with time, experience and patience.
The funny thing is that ASR considers itself the altruistic saviour of the audio industry and naive audio consumers, without realising it’s just an inward facing talking shop, and a pretty angry one at that.
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Well said, Elk.
Each tribe has their strong beliefs rooted in the very fabric of their lives. And once again, as so many times in the past, they have a new champion that waves the flag for them.
I’ve watched, over the past 50 years, these evangelists come and go. What’s been steady is folks who actually take a minute to listen and enjoy without entering the maelstrom of the debate.
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While Amir espouses the virtues of well measuring cheap gear as the holy grail, his personal system does not comprise of said cheap well measuring gear. I don’t remember the exact equipment he owns but the list is out there somewhere.
I didn’t want to even bother with this thread, but Elk said something very important here. I live in an area that has multiple audio clubs, and one of them contains members that are very wealthy - the kind of guys that can (literally, I kid you not) buy their own warehouses to store their unused gear. Many of them have had purpose built sound rooms constructed for their top shelf systems. It’s quite amazing how in many of these systems, the digital source is an Oppo player. Oppo made great stuff, I use one for my video watching, but being the pinnacle of digital audio transports, it ain’t. Yet I’ll hear that they use it because it measures so well and has top shelf parts in it.
Ours is a fascinating hobby.
I understand the appeal of relying on measurements. It appears objective and an unbiased way to make decisions. Expectation bias then takes over as one listens to each piece of equipment added on this basis, coupled with the fact that many things which measure well also sound good. I bet their are plenty of nice sounding systems owned by ASR enthusiasts. And some dreadful ones.
Most here also like measurements and specifications. Most also listen carefully to determine what they like best. A few do not care about measurements, and a few place extraordinary weight on measurements.
I am not convinced any method is inherently the best. I like my mixed approach and have gear which pleases me. In my view, this is the only thing which matters; the listener’s pleasure listening to music.
ASR members are enjoying themselves at least as much as we are. We engage in as much fussing with respect to equipment, manufacturers’ policies and offerings, etc. as they do. Our focus happens to be different. So what?
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Good post Elk.
The truth is that almost any audio group of like minded people can look pretty incestuous from the outside at times. I don’t mean that in as negative way as it probably sounds, but really my point is don’t worry about it - like what you like and enjoy the hobby. There are probably many reasonable people and some way over the top at ASR, like there are at almost any audio forum.
Edit: Oh, and importantly, if someone else doesn’t like what you like, who gives a rat’s ass? Be secure in your preferences and don’t worry about what others prefer
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I love my expresso machine, end of story!
Joke aside, is there a true scientific way to measure the “air” in a given system in a given room? I’ve found that’s where the magic is once a system passed the hi-fi threshold. Power Plant does add that magical air to my system in my room end of story.
The subtle changes in harmonics and sense of quiet space between instruments and voices, how can we measure that base of a single compoment? Then apply that measurement to fit all? I’ve got no *ffin clue.
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I find that a sense of air and improved/more accurate timbre is a function of a quieter background.
That is, less noise in the chain creates a greater sense of air and better timbre as the details are not obscured or changed by noise.
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Trying to read through the white noise and hostility of ASR, I have learned a lot from some very knowledgeable members there (not a coincidence that they are among the most civil and well-mannered) and I came to get some insights about products that opinions alone won’t provide
It is like when I read the measurements by JA or when I see Galen talking about his disbelief in digital cables.
I just try not to take anything as absolute truth.
But (there is always a but), there is one thing that keeps bothering me: when he measures the output of the DAC/preamp/amp and concludes that the precedent component in the chain (like power cables) did not change any measurement at all, I really don’t know how to reconcile both worlds
Especially because the measurements he uses (frequency response, noise and distortion levels, intermodulation, channel matching etc) seem to me to be the precise ones that manufacturers use to design check and to quality control the equipment
I can imagine that there are some use cases that are not captured by said measurements, but again it seems to me to be the exceptionand hardly a justication for the existence of the equipment
Am I missing anything here?
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I would think that if you are interested in measuring the impact of any component upstream of the speakers, then this would be relatively simple. The only thing feeding speakers is the signal flowing into them. If a power plant has an impact on the “air” in a given system in a given room, then it must have an impact on the signal flowing into the speakers, right? If there is no difference in the signal being fed to the speakers, then how would they produce a different output? If that is the case, then there is a scientific way to measure a component. As to which specific system and which specific room, that really doesn’t matter.
The method you suggested bypassed the room entirely? if I’m not mistaken. So the measured result doesn’t apply to an identical system including the cabling in a different room?
Of course it doesn’t include the room. If a person says “Power Plant does add that magical air to my system in my room end of story” then I would assume they did not compare two systems in two rooms, one with a power plant and one without. It is logical to say that two identical systems in two different rooms would sound different as the room is likely the largest contributor to the sound.
If a person says “Power Plant does add that magical air to my system in my room end of story” and the only change in the system is plugging into a power plant vs. plugging into a wall outlet then it is logical that any difference in sound would be measurable in the signal going into the speakers.
I’m not saying whether there is or is not a change in sound. I’m just saying that if there is, it must be measurable in the signal going into the speakers.
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Yes Amir does express his opinions. But you can’t argue with his test results. Did he measure everything he should have? Perhaps not but what he did measure is accurate. And he also acknowledged that the flaws he did find were inaudible. He also showed that the product did what is claimed, lower AC line distortion. But he also showed how that had no effect on a high quality headphone amplifier.
He doesn’t say the product is not any good but that is is not necessary in most applications. The measurements, if you understand them, shows that the product does offer some improvements to the in coming AC power. But it also shows the in coming AC power is already clean enough not to produce audible effects.
I have had the same opinion for these devices. If you do have poor AC power as some world locations do, they are a benefit. But if not, they are of no benefit.
True, and logical. But 1., what should be measured, and 2., what if there is a difference but the measurements don’t show it?