Can anyone give us a definitive list of measurements and tell us that if X goes up by this amount or to this point we will hear this. And if Y goes down to this point we will hear this? Or an amp with a measurement of Z will have a larger center stage than an amp with Z- or Z+.
Sure you can. Getting proper test results take more than just hang the right test equipment. It has to be used properly too. He has published some results that just don’t match what professionals have found.
Apparently he’s a reseller for Mark Levinson gear.
Paul, you own at least one Audio Precision test set just like Amir has. Why don’t you do a video confirming his tests and add on what ever you feel was missed measurement wise?
As for your internal measurement system we both know it’s not built to lab calibration grade quality. And it doesn’t need to be just as Amir said. That would make the product affordable. And while the distortion measurement did not match, he did acknowledge your product was still within your advertised spec.
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OK, tell me which measurements Amir posted are incorrect and why.
Where can I see the other “professionals” test results?
Actually that statement related to power regeneration equipment isn’t true. I have power that’s 124V and 3.9% THD on a bad day. Not too bad not great. The regenerator improves the sound in a variety of ways. It perfects the wave and removes distortion and dramatically lowers impedance. These improvements add to any sound system.
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I must question that claim and would like to see that properly measured. Utility distribution transformers source impedance is in the fractions of ohms at 50/60hz. Just compare the difference in VA capacity. Any re-generator cannot have a consistant lower impedance than it’s own power or conversion transformer. On peaks, yes due to the reservoir capacitors. But not continuous where as the raw utility power is of consistent very low impedance
I’m not sure. I’m in the wrong field of engineering to suggest what specifically should be measured.
I feel like this is the classic response. I would answer that either the difference is only a perceived difference or the wrong measurements were taken.
However, this inevitably ends up in most people taking sides.
One side will say ‘I can hear a difference and so can all these other audiophiles, reviewers, and audio companies. We aren’t all imagining it. If there was no difference then surely someone would have discovered that.’
The other side will say ‘There is no measurable difference. You only hear a difference because you are biased in some way. Audio dealers want to pedal a product, reviewers want to get paid, users want to justify their expenses.’
It goes back and forth ad nauseum.
Scientifically, if there is a difference, it is measurable. It will be detected either on a measurement device of some sort (multimeter, analyze, microphone, etc.) or in the chemicals in the brain.
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The Audio Precision test set Amir uses is the same thing PS Audio has. Paul has shown it in the background on many of his videos. It is the industry standard used by most all legitimate audio product manufactures.
OK, that’s an honest reply. Thank you.
There was a time in my life as a consumer when I paid rapt attention to every kind of measurement (I’m not an engineer, but an ecologist/statistician). Whenever I bought something—cars, lawn mower, dish washer, house paint, stereo, hiking boots, blender, etc., etc., I spent hours at the library analyzing the measurements in Consumer Reports, Road and Track, et al. Only to find I’d bought the wrong damn thing—again! There is no measurement for how I’d use and enjoy a purchase.
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You can research that yourself…
A good place to start is:
You said the measurements Amir publishes are not to be trusted. I asked for examples. That means other conflicting measurements using equivalent quality test gear.
Again, what errors are present in the measurements Amir posted on the PS12?
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This circular argument accomplishes nothing. Get a regenerator and plug it into your system and listen to it. If it helps the sound positively, then keep it. If not return it or sell it. Measuring won’t tell you how it will sound. Nobody is telling you how to spend your money but I’m suspicious of people telling me not to buy products for listening when they won’t listen.
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May we have some examples of the proper measurements a true engineer would make in this case?
If not this specific review do you have an example of another where the incorrect measurements were made?
Then for those doubters in the crowd…including Amir…
Get your P12, P15 or P20…measure the incoming thd.
In my case incoming thd ranges 3-6%. My P15’s
outgoing thd is 0.1%…that is a huge reduction in thd…
Will this reduction in thd improve the sq of my system?
Absolutely there is a very significant improvement in sound quality…
Could ASR persuade me otherwise…no not ever…
Had I paid heed to ASR ratings on the Oppo 205 and
the ratings of the PS Audio DS dac…I would not be enjoying
the much elevated sound quality the DS dac brings to my system.
Mind you I have both the Oppo 205 and the DS dac…DS dac wins
by a country mile and then some. DS dac brings a more analogue
like sound than the Oppo 205 ever could…
Could ASR convince me other wise…that would be a big laugh!!!
Best wishes all
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First it was clearly demonstrated the internal measurement was not highly accurate. And it can’t be at that price point. It’s close enough though. But why does an Audio Precision test set cost $30,000? It’s just a PC with ADC/DAC cards in it…
I think you are making the classic assumption that AC power distortion has a direct correlation to audio device distortion.
It doesn’t! That distorted AC power is highly filtered and in line level cases, regulated to DC. Unless that distortion is severe like over 10%, it’s not going to affect the conversion to DC.
Sorry glimmie BUT it sure does…
Like getting a bad batch of gas and tour car’s engine
running very rough as a result of the bad gas…with
quality gas your car’s engine will run far better…no two ifs and
or buts on that…
Run on bad gas if that is your fancy…but it is not mine…
Probably, but I still love my magical airy expresso machine! 
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But what numbers qualify “bad gas”? At what point does a defect in the composition of the gas start to degrade engine performance?
That is what you are missing. If you don’t understand how the power supply works, then how can you assign numbers to it’s performance in an audio product?
Again you are making a direct correlation between AC power distortion and audio distortion. It’s just not that simple.