Bad review of PS P12

Just popped up on my YouTube, ASR has a channel there to and this particular review is there. (took out link as I did not like the way it looked here)

Funny thing is in his opening video he talks about he knows nothing about audio and brags how good his instruments perform. I have seen his reviews before, never really thought much of them, but after this particular one (and a few others I found off) never going to visit the site even for morbid curiosity. Just plain bad science.

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IMHO, from elec measurements point of view, why measures P12? It is a power regenerator, not audio gears. If audio gears, measurements on different maker/model, can be informative. Measure P12 to compare to what? Are there other audio companies like PSA make both power regen and audio gear.
I have to admit that I don’t understand elec measurements means, since I have no knowledge in that area. One thing I do understand is PSA voicing its gears with its power regen. Since I own PSA gears, I thought it makes sense to add a P12 to get closer to the performance out from my PSA gears. Besides, if won’t work out, I have 30 days to return it. I get a P12, my ears love it, and cannot “listen” without it as long as I own PSA gears. Maybe, in the near future, when I need a hearing aides, the technology will be so advanced that it can make good measurement gears sound good to me, then I will dump my PSA gears and save big bucks with cheaper but good measurements gears.

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It is so funny even laughable…ASR rates the Oppo 205 very
highly and still ranks among the best dacs…yet the PS Audio
DS dac is poo poohed…and sits near the bottom of the rankings…

If i were to have paid heed to ASR…I would never have come into
the enjoyment of the greatly increased sound quality my DS dac
provides over my Oppo 205…

The PS Audio DS dac is a beautiful piece regardles of ASR!!!
Thank you Ted Smith for the DS dac…!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

So much for ASR and their measurement poo pooh

Best wishes

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There are experienced members that can see through the original passive-aggressive comment by another (not you). The passive-aggressive comments were appropriately called out as what they are, trolling. You have to keep in mind that the other site INTENTIONALLY does not listen to audio products to then arrive at an opinion about their sound quality.

Very strong language. :slight_smile:

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ASR feeds into the envy in people. If someone feels bad about listening through their music on iPhone with their earpods they surely can get reassurances that people paying big money for certain audio products are nothing but fools. Because nothing makes a difference. They have members posting pictures of Iphone dongles in their profile photos and compares it to an expensive DAC and claims it is the same. HIFI hobby is one of the very few hobbies were some people try their hardest to ruin the fun for others. The review they did on the PS Audio DAC did not only reek of bias, it was a hit job.

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I remember when I started working at PS, I though the P10s were crazy! Why on earth would someone buy one? They are bigger than the amp I had at the time and what do you do with it, just plug your gear into them… complete waste. After a few months working here, one of the guys let me bring one home. Getting to try out world class audio gear for free? Heck yeah!

I was a huge skeptic. Having just graduated college, I didn’t have that fancy of a system. The P10 was easily 3x as expensive as the rest of my system. I’ll also preface I did not have that well trained of an ear. Are the highs clear and is the bass punching my chest? Good enough for me.

I put on my reference track at the time, Reckoner by Radiohead. Damnit, Paul was right. The damn thing brought incredible life to the system. It startled me with how real the tambourine sounded in the opening of the track. I then did what all of us do when we get a new piece of gear, went through my favorite albums and enjoyed for hours.

Every system I’ve built since has a regen. They do their job darn well.

It’s funny that there can even be a debate here. It seems to me that the folks that support the regens are the ones that have tried them and have experienced what they offer. The other side using ASR’s measurements to justify their belief that they don’t do anything. Interesting, isn’t it.

I don’t like cheesecake. I’ve never tried it before but it can’t be good because my dad once said it’s unhealthy and gross… :joy: :rofl:

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Unfortunately I think it goes beyond that. People using these measurements as a way of weeding out things before it even looking at it in real life. When I say Cult, I mean it. Just sad how the internet in some ways is so informative, but in others makes people mindless followers.

I do not think we can conclude ASR members are envious. Many have plenty of money to spend on more expensive equipment if they choose to do so. They do not need outside reassurance they have made good buying decisions. And they are not focusing on us, trying to ruin our fun.

Rather, they are sharing their audio experiences with like-minded individuals - just as we do here.

A bit too kind/an overstatement in my view… The derision that permeates the threads over there for (un)like-minded individuals sets many of them apart from most of “us” over here.

Even in this thread (which no doubt contains lots of criticism of ASR site and its denizens), I think there is a clear lack of a “moral equivalency” in terms of the behavior/rhetoric.

(But maybe I misread your statement and missed the intended sentiment.)

FWIW.

Not much said about the SAFETY using a regenerator. What’s that about?

I live in Ohio, and where I liver near Oxford, we get a LOT of really, really, bad power outages that can latch several times or more before going OUT, on settling down the AC. The P20 isolates all that from my system the way I programmed it.

The AC, when it is working, is OK, but WOW it is not too nice when it tries to correct line faults. Let’s add the thunderstorms into the mix.

I have a lot of expensive pieces in my system, and the P20 has to do some pretty tough things. Keep the VA power delivery (peak and sustained) equal or better (I use 50% capacity usually) and not much mentioned, STOP the press when the power glitches mightely.

In my system, the P20 does the job I need…a WAY better safety valve for my AC power and, the settled voltage level is a plus. For tube users, the bias needs a stable input voltage and the regeneratoirs can help keep your bias level where you want them, too. Not a bad thing to have!

Music is dynamic. What we hear steady state isn’t what makes devices sound different. We seldom test dynamic responses (way harder to do) but that’s what we hear, though. Add non-linear time based responses and dynamics, both, to a test and it is even less, “the same”.

An improved instantaneous VA delivery over an impulse frequency spread spectrum response can have an impact with less than capable internal supplies using a regenerator. This depends on the down stream capabilities the regenerator can’t fix, but mitigate. If your internal supply is a “P20” by design, clearly another one in series isn’t needed JUST for the power aspects, but be warned, my AC isn’t playing nice multiple times a year. The P20 provides protection that my devices don’t.

Best,
Galen

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Hmmm . . . I am seeing a good amount of condescension here directed at ASR, replete with labeling and name calling. A short list of terms used here against ASR and its members:

“baggage, nonsense, toxic, trolling, fools, no credibility, forced leaders, biased, prejudiced, placebo, condescension, gave me some laughs, equipment/technique is faulty, envy, ignorant, divisiveness and incivility, not even worth a conversation, cult, knows nothing about audio, bad science, mindless followers,” etc.

While I do not visit ASR, I expect we can find plenty of examples of shots taken at other audiophiles, at least generically.

Regardless, I do not think we can claim the high road here.

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I tried to reply to you, Elk. But I find it would be a lot a lot longer than I intended. I think you are far too kind. Maybe we should be more like you. I always enjoyed your posts in the past.

Kind of like relying on measurements and testing of specifications instead of actually listening to the equipment as well. :wink: :laughing:

I won’t claim I am an example of a virtuous objectivist regarding this topic. That said, derision is on a whole 'nother level “over there”, in my not too long ago experience.

Appreciate your thoughtfulness, as always…

SEE

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Eek! No longer? :slight_smile:

This may well be a completely accurate description. I am however dismayed with the number and types of insults this group is lobbing to “over there.” We cannot claim moral superiority.

Absolutely fair. I have been to ASR and determined it was of little use/interest to me. Thus while I did not see the opprobrium of other audiophiles as described here, I readily acknowledge my experience is limited and it might be present.

This whole thing is reminiscent of auto enthusiast arguments over transmission choice, with the manual aficionados claiming “true” enthusiast cars have manual transmissions and automatics of any kind are anathema - when in reality it is a mere preference.

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Haha, I will still enjoy your posts, my friend!

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(whew)

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Well said sir.

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Just have to say…I love my P20, and the P15 and P12 before it. Is it expensive? Sure. But so is anything worth owning. What it does for my system and my listening enjoyment far outweighs any negative banter I hear from any other person with different opinions or just plain mean attacks due to whatever shortcomings they are dealing with in their life.

:+1:

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I went to see what ASR says about P12. The conclusion is that “I can’t recommend the PS Audio PowerPlant P12. I can’t detect it making any improvement to your audio devices and costs a fortune to boot. Save your money and put it toward a better cause.” A problem with ASR is that Amirm does not consider the limitation of his equipment. What we hear is not just sound that reaches our ears. The audible signals are transmitted through our sensory nerves in the ears to the brain where audibles signals are are interpreted. The perception of dynamics and space cannot easily be represented by sound waves, impedance, db levels or frequency. whatever conclusion Amirm makes is absolute and is universally applicable. Absolutely nothing scientific about Audio Science Review. I don’t have a P12 or other PA regenerator although I am often tempted by it.

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