They looked like refrigerator cartons painted with an automotive finish with a buffed out wax application. Reminded me of an Earl Scheib “job”, Chicago’s premier auto detailer and refinisher. The sound may be fine for some, just not what I was looking for.
I had a local guy in Tallahassee that was referred to me by Clayton Shaw that wanted to listen to the Spatial speakers I was using at the time. He had two pair of Tektons at his house one he owned and another he was testing out. I went and listened to both pair and other than the looks the sound did nothing for me. Nothing like a Harbeth or any other speaker from that sector of sound.
All you need is for local reviewer Terry London to right up a couple of rave reviews of a smaller “relatively unknown” company and if it generates sales then within a short period of the companies products will show up on the product page. I suspect he is getting favorable margins from these companies unlike from Fidelis.
Yes the BAV, Belden Audio Video, and ICONOCLAST are simply stepping stones of electrical improvements in calculations and measurements. We sort of try to make it easier to tell where a product falls by using the three categories. Kind of like Chevy, Buick, and Cadillac. We may not have it as obvious as we should.
Best,
Galen
Thanks.
So, the link I shared in my first post has 100 feet for $150.
And the Iconoclast site has a 30-foot pair (60 feet) for $360
Now, I know the iconoclast offering has welded bananas at both ends and is wrapped it in techflex nylon braid and heat-shrinked. The 1313A cable from other place isn’t wrapped or terminated.
But there’s no difference in the wire itself, is there? (Just trying to do a bit of a cost-benefit analysis here.)
I suggest asking BJC to be certain.
yeah, i made my reply to Galen so maybe he can shed light, but I’ll contact the companies on monday
The bulk cable is the same, it better be! The labor to add the necessary components for a nice assembly takes time. Labor is always expensive on small volume tasks.
I can mow my 2 acre lawn for the cost of 2 gallons of gas, but if I have someone else do it, it is $150.00. Same thing. The materials isn’t the cost, the labor and material ammortization that is needed to make a nice professional looking and working assembly is.
The $8,000.00 mower (ultra-sonic welder in the cable assembly case) is $$$ to buy and use, too, so not just the gas, and they need to get it all here with what? It adds up.
But you are correct, if you do all your own work it is cheaper, maybe not better. We are 100% transparent on what Belden BULK we use, so no mysteries there. Everyone has the proper information to make or buy with Belden stock SKU items.
Best,
Galen Gareis
Thanks, Galen.
Oh, absolutely. I have a graphic design company, and I understand and try to make my clients aware of the value of professional design and creative services. The fact that someone’s nephew has adobe illustrator and can make a logo or lay out a newsletter for a fraction of what we charge is not lost on me!
I was just curious about the raw materials, so thank you for that. The sad fact is that these cables will be underneath a rug (between closet wall and fireplace), so I’m considering a few factors:
- not sure if the added sheathing would be a benefit or a detriment under the rug (might reduce wear, but it would add to thickness of cable)
- I have tons of good banana plugs and other connectors, and can do a lot of this myself. I might want spades on one end, for what it’s worth
- the leftover cable from the 100 ft length will come in handy elsewhere
- much of the “pretty look” will be hidden in the closet and under the rug
So, decisions, decisions!
Don’t use cable coverings, they will abraid the cable and make the problem of wear worse. The 1313A uses a tough olefin dielectric but still…don’t walk on your cables.
With a high strand count cable like 1313A, use a lead free WBT or like silver solder, ya it’s expensive, to get a permanent gas tight seal on ALL strands. This requires a lot of heat to flow the solder properly. Silver helps reduce the lead free solder flow temperature, it does not change the resistivity at all, counter to what people say.
You need to heat sink just past the olefin insulation to keep it from melting. Attach a big hunk of metal (some are called solder stops) to stop the heat from flowing back into the insulation, or basically stop the heat going where you don’t want it to go. Of course, ultrasonic weld skips over all that.
Best,
Galen
Thanks, Galen. This is good information for all of us amateur cable builders.
thank you for the info!
Yeah, it’s a low-traffic area. Lots of sitting, not much walking.
I’ve posted this photo before, but for reference, this is the location… speaker cables go under orange couch to the fireplace hearth, and then are channeled to the speakers.
A beautiful room. 1313A is more or less the bench mark in the industry for 2-conductor, multi-strand speaker cable. You will not find find better and differs from 5T00UP by an upgrade in copper and application specifics. 5T00UP is more commonly used where ultra high current/voltage applications are necessary as in NASCAR facilities and football stadiums. 1313A is better suited where audio (quality) is more the target as in board rooms, hotel lobbies, sports bars an multi-room/multi-channel applications and budget/system parameters/needs do not specifically require “audiophile” grade cables. I sold miles of 1313A over my years at Belden and have used it personally with great enjoyment. It is as good as it gets without entering the next domain.
Allied, Anixter, Markertek and a host of online sellers offer 1313A though few will cut to length.
https://audio-video-supply.markertek.com/search?w=belden+1313A&sitepref=1
You are encouraged to shop around before settling for less than this very good and reasonably priced speaker cable. If you call Jeff at Blue Jeans, he may or may not be able to offer you a raw or bulk wire price depending on availability when you call. As Galen says, we all have to make a little money in order to be here for our customers. You might also ask for a price for a terminated assembly without the TechFlex.
At Blue Jeans, we will always be about service and value. You will not find a better termination than our ultrasonically welded bananas and spades. You may certainly have and combination of connectors that works best.
Give Jeff a call and see what options he may offer.
Good luck in your search.
Thanks Bob!
Yeah, I’ll make a few calls tomorrow and see what I can come up with. I like keeping the good guys in business.
@BobBJC I am currently using BJC Belden 5000UE cables. Would the 1313A be a big step up? If so, are welded 1/4" Cardas spades an option yet? (I see Cardas spades are available in the iconoclast cables). I have Cardas binding post blocks on my amp, and finding good fitting binding posts is difficult. According to Cardas either the GRS-R or CGMS-R are ideal.
I talked to Jeff and he’s got me all set up for 100 feet of 1313A.
Should have it by the end of the week I reckon.
Excellent! Happy building and installing.
Glad it worked out!
The wire arrived, and I have a question about doing some A/B testing.
Would it be a problem temporarily connecting BOTH sets of speaker cables to the amp’s speaker terminals at the same time, simply to aid in comparing the difference between the existing and new cables?
Only one set of cables would be connected to the speakers at one time, obviously. The other one would just be free/open/wild.
(Easier to swap connectors on the speaker’s terminals, than it is to muck around behind the amplifier.)
I guess I’m wondering if it’s an issue with impedance for the amp, as well as whether it might result in an inaccurate measurement/evaluation of any differences I might hear in the cables.
The amp sees the added capacitance of the unconnected leads. You are right, the reactive load will change the amps linearity / damping factor. It’s the same as putting a capacitor across the amplifier terminals. You have two parallel plates (wires) separated by a dielectric (the insulation). If you short the far end wires to remove the capacitance you blow up the amp.
Best,
Galen