Effective wire gauge of hot, neutral, and ground in the new BAV power cord @rower30?
We will have three choices; 14, 12 and 10 AWG.
best,
Galen
You tease you
Quick check; Can you already do the ultrasonic re-termination of your speaker cables with spades? Understand this was planned.
Yes we can reterminate once all the spade footer tooling is completed and sonic weld spade designs in house. This isn’t done yet.
The WBT solder is still very, very good. The advantage to sonic weld is we can get the same quality faster and more consistently as it is a machine, not a person. The difference is more what it looks like than sounds like each done right. Both are excellent but sonic weld wins for consistency to the highest metrics.
Looking ahead we have to do this to keep quality high with increased sales.
Best,
Galen
Galen
I know you’ve said that you’re choice for speaker terminations is spades, but is this theoretical preference or is the choice of spades over bananas something that is audibly obvious?
I’m asking because my amplifier position makes bananas preferable and I’m thinking of sending my cables back to you for retermination.
Thanks
Ron
Ok great, please let us know once this capability is in place.
Looking to re-terminate from plugs to spades.
Ah, I’m just looking to go the other way, from bananas to spades. With spades I can tighten the terminal screws, while bananas just slide in. I feel spades will make better contact with my speakers. I currently have the older Iconoclast spades, not the new ones you can tighten.
Ron,
Spades offer the best air tight seal with the best surface sea. And, they are tolerant of fitment. Just get the right spade width and you’re set.
OK, but Can a good Banana work, too? The question is of two parts;
First, is the banana sleeve made for a lot of surface area contact?
Second, is that area firmly contacted by the five way binding post inside diameter?
We use the Cardas CABD or self locking banana. The Cardas have a narrow fitment size they accept where the locking banana are more tolerant of the fitment hole size.
I use the Cardas CABD with my M40-HV amps as they fit TIGHT and firm. That is key to this CABD design. But, it is a less consistent Fitment than is desirable.
We are recommending the locking sonic weld banana as they are far more tolerant of fitment. A few mils in either direction and the CABD are too lose or tight. This can drive you nuts. But when CABD work, they are excellent.
We could send you both to see where you are on your equipment.
We are all about making it work best for you and knowing why we do what we do.
Best,
Galen
Thanks Galen. Can’t ask more than that!
Are iconoclast RCA interconnects suitable as phono cables?
I second that question. I just got a new turntable that has RCA jacks. I have a Soundsmith Zepher MKIII moving iron cartridge, not a moving coil. It would be nice to know if Iconoclast RCA 1x1, 1x4 or BAV would perform well as phono cables.
Also, are good phono cable properties different for moving coil vs. moving magnet or moving iron? According to the specs the Iconoclast RCA 1x1 cables are lower in capacitance, but higher in inductance and resistance than the 1x4 RCA.
Without question, the Iconoclast RCA cable is an excellent choice for phono applications. And while I customers who have ordered, used and raved about both the BAV RCA and the Iconoclast Gen 1 RCA, Galen optimized the 2nd Generation 1X4 assembly and the 4X4 XLR for “analog” applications. Here is a little something I saved for those who asked the phono suitability.
"RCA for Phono 11/28/18
Phono is an unbalance RCA on most all tonearms except SOME have a DIN option. We provide an RCA unbalanced lead, and the ICONOCLAST™ are specifically designed for low signal level PHONO applications (see attached for gen one cable). The RCA’s double braid reduces ground imbalances important to phone especially. And, the further improved signal wire design improves coherence, lowers DCR and flattens the Rs response of the GEN II RCA which improves the use on MC or MM phono leads. We don’t manufacture TONE ARM leads, however. You are spot on, the needs of the phono stage are the target design for the RCA, which then will easily meet higher voltage signal applications.
There are a FEW tonearm options that are indeed XLR, and the need for heavy braids is removed through the design of XLR cable. The exact same L and C variables are matched in the XLR as the RCA with ICONOCLAST. Balanced does indeed offer better balance (less chance of noise) if you have this set-up off the Tonearm.
I use the RCA gen II on my VPI CLASSIC 3.0 table with the memorial tonearm and with a low output Benz Micro RUBY Z MC, for instance, from the tone arm to the head amplifier."
Best,
Galen Gareis
Many want to use Ethernet type cables for SPEAKER cables. Here is how to interpret that application. For short runs to efficient speakers this can be surprisingly good sounding.
Ethernet needs varied lays to mitigate EM coupling on the pairs. Two wire crosses at ninety degrees cancel EM magnetic fields. Well, you can’t do that in a cable that GOES anywhere! The alternative is to make lays TIGHTER to better make the crossover points get closer to ninety degrees “on average” as every pair lay can’t be the same.
This adds a SKEW time delay into the designs that needs to be managed by the NIC card. The maximum is 45ns of skew from the SLOWEST to the FASTEST pair in the cable. There is ALSO propagation DELAY requirement, not to be confused with SKEW. SKEW is taking the propagation DELAY value of the slowest pair, and subtracting it from the DELAY value of the fastest pair, that needs to be less than 45ns difference. The DELAY is the SPEED of the pairs and Ethernet has a requirement for that, too, between 1.0 MHz and the highest tested frequency. We can’t be too SLOW on the shortest lay pair.
So what the hell is that all about? It means that Ethernet cables are NOT going to send a signal down a cable in proper COHERENCE, or the same properties across all four pairs by DESIGN. Our NIC can “adjust” the timing for us, but analog audio can not make that adjustment. The signal will be “distorted” in the time domain based on where a cable is in the specification @ 100 meter maximums, and the length of the cable you use.
All is not lost! There are special DESIGNS that are SPECIFICALLY made to manage RGB analog video, where all three red, green, blue need to be the SAME and Ethernet, where we need to meet the specs shown above. This called Mediatwist® and it even has a DESIGN that meets strict Cat6 while offering VERY low slow to fast pair sped differentials of 10ns over 100 Meters.
How does it do that? It uses a FLAT configuration that separates the pairs in long/short/long/short pair lay order. If you look, several pair combinations used to test cross-talk are separated by a pair in between them…this lowers cross-talk and only the three lay combinations that are adjacent to one another are “worst case”. Belden has two cables, one CMP plenum and one CMR Riser, that will hold pair lay differences to an absolute minimum for Ethernet and analog applications, hence “MULT- media” in the name Mediatwist®. Look at 7989P and 7989R. The 7989P use a TEFLON dielectric, which is technically better than the olefin in 7989R (closer to an ideal 1.0 value of air). Another advantage is the copper is LARGER in Mediatwist than the 7987P and R.
There are ALSO four pair cables that are NOT Ethernet, but strictly RGB camera type cables that are ”zero” SKEW. Delay doesn’t matter now that Ethernet is not a requirement). These use Ethernet type pairs but make the “twists” the SAME on every pair. Don’t use these for Ethernet! Look at 7987P and 7987R.
So that’s the cables and why they exist. Certainly we can look at differing cables and look at the skew and delay specs to see which are lowest on skew differential (a measure of lay coherence).
What do we do with the four pairs though on an unbalanced speaker set-up? We need to take two pairs and COMBINE them in parallel. If you look at the electrical of the cable, the capacitance will DOUBLE and the INDUCTANCE will HALVE when we twist the wires in parallel. Lengths are SHORT and the values aren’t too high (12-16 pF/foot or so and 0.126-0.15 uH/foot nominal). The final cable will be about 28pF/foot and .008uH/foot inductance, which is pretty good.
Take two CROSS-pairs and connect them in parallel NOT the two adjacent pairs. This will average the lay differences in the two closest pair lays, as it will be a LONG+LONG and SHORT+SHORT. One of the two parallel pair sets is your GROUND point of reference.
I’m an old timer audiophile and my hearing has seen better days. Apparently firing a rifle at pop cans a few thousand times as a kid can make your hearing crap out when you get to my age, 69. My left ear is significantly down. I still hear very well though and have no problem with identifying details in musical passages. I’ve been all in on Siltech cabling for many years. I’ve been on the fence about moving to another brand. Call it loyalty or familiarity or resistance to change. I’ve spoken with Bob about Iconoclast when I bought some one owner Watt/Puppies to move to floor standers. I had boxes of cable and my dealer gave me a great trade allowance. My gear is as new and this stuff is an easy resell on the secondary market. I stayed with Siltech. Being retired with my youngest children in Med school and Another in 3 rd year, I’m careful with money. A used Iconoclast OFC XLR came up and I jumped on it. A few days later and a reorganization of my gear to accommodate a 5 foot run, I was off to the races so to speak. Initially it was nice. Warm, with nice detail. OK it’s nice after a few days my system has just bloomed. Sound is wonderful and has an effortless quality to it. It’s absolutely silent and easily betters a Siltech cable that was 3X the money. I’m probably going to pull the speaker cables and go all in with Iconoclast. So the journey continues.
Very nice looking system. The entire Iconoclast lineup as well as the Belden BAV XLR’s are all great value products. Personally I could not tell enough of a difference to go past the TPC alloy cables.
Please still be aware that the speaker cable verses the IC type RCA and XLR will exhibit different tonal balance. The OFE is warmer than the TPC or SPTPC in speaker cables compared to the IC designs.
You need to give a listen to the two types of cable on their own merits. Surprisingly the copper influences the EM wave form more than anyone understands at this point. Don’t expect the same general sound going between the IC and speaker interconnects. Many use the TPC speaker cable with the OFE interconnects as the “balance” is better than too much of a good thing. The speaker cable STARTS with the IC’s signal quality after all and changes it from there. So if you LOVE your IC cable you really want ZERO change through the speaker cable, as an example.
The TPC, as Baldy mentions, are a REALLY, REALLY good deal for what you pay as the DESIGN leverages the audio quality so darn well. I made the line WITH the TPC all the way through FIRST and it had to be good.
The SPTPC, OFE, and UP OCC were designed-in LAST. My goal was to get a really nice set of leads for US, the “normal” income crowd that enjoys hi-fi. Sure, we can spend some more on our hobby but not tens of thousands.
Where are those value products like PS Audio? They are hard to make, market and rare. I hope ICONOCLAST is getting there for our user universe. Cables are important and a full LOOM of well made products at affordable prices are available with ICONOCLAST. Better, you get the top of the line DESIGN. The idea was to far exceed what is available at LESS money. And yes, they do indeed deliver on that goal.
OMG by all means buy USED ICONOCLAST if the auditon is what you want. Our cables will last decades as they use fluorocopolymer materials. Time won’t hurt them, just how they are treated. They don’t wear out in use!
And always thanks for the support, but ony suport what is worth holding up!
Best,
Galen Gareis
I traded in my Siltech cables years ago once I heard the Generation One Iconoclast cables. I’m also old and there was a time I thought the SIltechs were the bees knees. Now I’m using all Gen II cables, I cannot imagine I will ever buy another brand of cable again.
Galen
I’m running all Iconoclast cables; using RCA IC’s as one of my amps has SE inputs only.
Now I have another amp with both SE and XLR.
Question is, other than noise cancellation, is there anything else in balanced cable that is intrinsically better for sound quality? (my guess is NO)
Thanks
Ron
Well there’s more gain, which may or may not be a boon to your system (it is to mine).