Belden ICONOCLAST Interconnects and Speaker Cabling

Cables
2520

Bad beef,

Not defensive at all, just saying it like it is…this is a BAV product line for value concious end users. I designed and tested it for that purpose and brought it to the market and with vetted testing. Blue Jeans does sell to assemblies major studio’s that want value and quality.

This product joins the BAV XLR, a more expensive product than “base” but brings added features in durability and performance. We moved power cords to a bracket that differentiates what the product is.

Not sure where the concept came from that this is a made for PS Audio forum product. Presented here yes, but it isn’t made to fit just this forum per say. We do enjoy the PS Audio forum input but the end base goal is a lot broader market than our forum.

That said, the cosmetics can be altered to suit different needs at nominal costs. Better, they can be the one you want.

As far as snagging, you didn’t, I did. Let the user decide not me or you. Simple enough. Stamped cases have sharp edges and square corners for COST efficiency. It snaggs on those. These stamped 1U on up cases are common. The backs are not finished and in a rack or not they can snag ME too! Been there done that.

Best,
Galen

2521

Sorry - it appeared you did a lot of your marketing/selling here, so the presentation of the BAV ACs on here seemed to be aimed at those of us who might want value AC cables. Still can’t see (as a pro user myself) buying AC cables with the big ends on these.

I asked if these cables could be available with flex on the outside, as it would be appealing to me and others here. That was it.

2522

I am not a cable aficionado so I’ve just stumbled upon this thread. WOW…they are something else! They look like hydraulic hoses. Cut off the mains pins, cut off the IEC flush with the body – they look exactly like hydraulic hoses fitted with adjustment burst valves at either end – as fitted to my tractor.! The heavy hex for wrench. Not a criticism; just taken aback at how uncannily they look like hydraulic hoses. I hope they sell well for you…

3 Likes
2523

The connectors on the BAV power cords look substantial. What is the diameter of the plug? Could you post a picture of one plugged in to a wall outlet so that we can see if they encroach on the other outlet? Can two of them be plugged in to the same wall outlet?

2524

I’m glad you fleshed this out. I was just getting ready to order one! But I’m in no way in the Pro world. Oh well.

2525

If I was marketing or sales I wouldn’t get you upset about tech flex! My bad. I’m just not going to roll dung downhill at you even if I make you mad. The best ootion is for the user to decide, not us. Also, we don’t want to make the basic optionp unusable like car at 40K bucks that needs to be 55K to be remotely useful as used. That is not “useful”. I agree that that is an annoyance when needed features are omitted.

Also, the studio and industrial market will want twist lock plugs as they use 240 and 480 volts. They are far different than 110 plugs. We aren’t going there so much so we keep a good basic power cord. This product will evolve in two directions, yes.

I agree that the “options” for tech flex need to be provided in the drop-down build screen to add as desired. I’ll work with Bob to get this done and…an examples to see exactly what you will get. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder…so BEHOLD here it is!

The 1313A is BAV yet it does have a tech flex cosmetic BECAUSE it is for “our” market. The studio uses powered speakers and has no use for a standard speaker cable. But, it is not optimized as is ICONOCLAST so we keep it separate from that customer so they understand what level of optimization the cable is doing. BAV is is “step” between totally basic to optimized products. We can offer NO tech flex as an option. Just the opposite but as he speaker cables are out in the system view area so some beauty is nice to see. And, this is why it defaults to the nicer look.

Comments?

Best,
Galen

2526

No problems at all. These are the “standard” dimensions for audio plugs that do look beefy. We went with metal (aluminum) plugs that are real good quality as some of these plugs aren’t so well made. It took awhile to find and spec these. And, the look is great in the flesh. They are an honest presentation and high quality through and through. THAT is easy to see.

The size is no dofferent than all the usual suspects use (my SHUNYATA reference cord) and don’t block adjacent plugs that use standard spacing.

We designed AC cords that WORK first at the best price we could. Looks are $$$ so we made that an option. We hate the high prices yet want everything that makes stuff expensive, I know, I do it too.

Best,
Galen Gareis

2527

Good point. I have a bunch of power cords, and cords for external power supplies, etc. which I pull out of the back of travel cases once on site (they are connected on one end to the equipment racked in the case). Techflex would definitely catch on the case backs, etc. in this context. This would get old quickly.

I also want all of the cables to be boring matte black.

On the other hand, in home audio one rarely moves power cables around. With uncommon exception they tend to stay in place. And pretty counts.

1 Like
2528

I’m not mad - and don’t understand why it would lead to dung-rolling :man_shrugging:t2: Your and Bob’s reactions to this were sort of surprising and confusing. Thought it was a simple question, and it ended up seeming like I had hit on a touchy subject or something.

I’m still a bit unclear - you ARE going to offer it? Or only on the speaker cable?

@BobBJC - I agree that the cable pictured doesn’t look great. The TechFlex appears to be too small in diameter, so it stretches very wide, showing the white underneath, making it look like a mesh stocking. Unless the flex and the cable colors work together, I tend to like it with flex that is just slightly under the diameter of the cable, so you barely see the underlying cable, if at all. Just needs to be snug. My two cents.

Please feel free to ignore all of this, especially since the product is apparently not for this market. Were I to use it on stage or other pro application, I wouldn’t want the flex either.

2529

Words minus facial expression equal misunderstanding. I meant that I won’t sell you bull**** as a customer base, and if I don’t now I’ll say so. Facts don’t argue so much and we try to do our best to present those as we get them.

We can sell the facts, but we won’t ever sell an interpretion of them. Apples fall with gravity at a known speed. But, we won’t tell you what makes gravity…we don’t know except that is is related to mass somehow. That’s not the answer to gravity, though. Lots of stuff is like that and I like to at least get the KNOWNS correct in measure and repeatability. Electricity is also a gray area we can’t fully explain. Is the EM wave (magnetic or electric) first or second to the current that creates them? They both can’t be at the “same” time, can they? No firm answer there yet. Most feel current is FIRST, but WHEN is the EM wave created? Later or instantly? The SHAPE and vector magnitudes of the B and E field are what we call the SIGNAL. If those fields don’t change what we hear can’t change is the current (pun there) answer to how electricity effects us.

The unknown tertiary (interpretation things) have to get better with proper underlying known properties and measurement. Or, someone needs to do a study on changing the underlying fundamentals. Been done, so I’m not saying to never try.

We’ll offer the 1313A in available COLORS and the tech flex is USUALLY black, so just pick what is best. I like the soft look of the white under the black…but BLACK will be best for a more uniform look. The Tech Flex has an optimum ID or cable OD, so we can’t offer an “exact” fit over all cables. There is a range to the stuff.

Choice is good. We’ll get that done for you.

Best,
Galen

2530

RonP,

Does that mean you were going to order a power cable, but you have been convinced not to because of the pro audio world comments?

2531

Galen,

What Shunyata cord is your reference? Do you have any performance characteristics between the two?

2532

Anaconda is an older series cord for what it is worth. In my system, with a quiet AC system out in the sticks, it is transparent between the two. Both are 10 AWG cords. The P20 and one 20A circuit may also have an effect on the cord. The P20 isn’t big enough for BOTH amps to reach full power on one circuit…but can get where I need them to be.

I use the 10 AWG from the P20 to the T+A M40 HV 1200 or so watt amps. Why? Because the current draw can upset the input voltage to the amp ground noise with that much current draw; current times the resistance of the cord conductors=voltage drop across the cord. This changes the voltage at the AMP, and thus the possible influence on the DC Vcc voltages.

This is a GUESS as I can’t say I HEAR a change in the sound. But with that much current, a low DCR cord is needed there to mitigate input voltage fluctuations under power. That is true, and can be measured but…is the Vcc DC rail changing THAT is what changes the sound. My ear says no. Then again, I use maybe 100 watts at peak of the 1200 available at 4-ohms.

Best,
Galen

2533

My Shunyata Sigma NR 20 amp cable to my P20 made what I would describe as a component level improvement in sound. If it didn’t, I would have sent it back; I’m not a brand-loyal type or wealthy.
So far, no one in my hifi club hasn’t heard what I hear, except two guys who believe aftermarket cables are snake oil.
Maybe the explanation is that you are using 100 watts, even thru 4 ohms!!, while I doubt I get past 2 or 3 watts.

2534

100 watts PEAK. Average is like maybe 10 at the most. So no, I’m not playing welding music power levels. The speakers are 88 dB efficiency or so…but I’d say 2 dB is LOT, my CLX ar 90 dB efficiency, as they need more umph than the CLX ever did. But, I’ve got plenty of umph!

The better your power supply is, the less a cord “works” as the capacitive current reserve is what is delivering the intantaneous 100 watt peak power, not the wall. And that’s exactly how they are supposed to work. At those 10 watt or less levels the power supply charges back up. There is no perpetual motion going on, it is a send, recieve, send, receive kind of thing.

The cords INDUCTANCE is what allows instantaneous current draw (low impedance to current) and the BAV and ANACONDA have near the same capacitance. ROMEX by design is also low inductance, too. This is at way above audio RF regions frequencies, no effect at 20-20K.

                      IND        CAP

ROMEX 0.227 12.4
BAV 0.199 20.8
ANACONDA 0.143 19.1
(uH/ft and pF/foot)

Sorry, I forgot poor “R”. Look at the earlier Rs graph above to see where the “R” falls for each one…more or less all 10 AWG.

The data in the graphs above show the three cords tested for passive RF absorption impedance (Rs). The loss tangent of the dielectric is responsible for that attribute and is a component vector of the dissipation factor for a dieletric, which act like reactive elements at RF.

The cords trade off capacitance for lower inductance. Pretty straight forward. With passive field cancellation (in the ICONOCLAST design) the inductance value will drop. Same as the 4x4 IC cords do.

Capacitance isn’t a problem as it acts like mini current reserve at the IEC connector for current delivery. Not much, so don’t get too excited.

Basic electrical can get pretty darn good with a basic cord design and that’s what the BAV cord does plus passive RF dielectric properties. Not a bad thing at all in my mind to find with testing. My experience using them has been very good. These are nice cords to geta good base in a nice system. They provide WAY, WAY more than the price sggests. But, this is true of most well made modern products; most of the performance at a fraction of the price.

What we hear COLD be tested with the right resolution as the EM wave is “different” somehow. Like it or not the EM wave magnitude with time is where the sound hits the circuit and…all the changes in the EM wave in those circuits. It never stops until it leaves the speaker diaphram. Nothing jumps around the chain to your ear.

Best,
Galen

1 Like
2535

I an’ I want to be playin’ WELDIN’ music levels. And want to be woken like I-Roy:

2536

I’ve often wondered that since my power amps (both Pass Labs) are the least sensitive to power cable changes.

2537

Makes sense, as I’ve often wondered what all the fuss about power cables is, but with certain sorts of devices, it is apparent.

2538

All of LPS respond great to cords as does the PS Audio DSD. My big McIntosh Amps are not too Sensitive to cords like RonP’s Pass Amps. Their on board huge coffee can size capacitors likely the reason. My Amps will keep playing music ten to fifteen seconds or more as the two 52,000 micro farad capacitors drain when power switch is turned off before the preamp.

2539

@rower30, for audio is this a better solution tgan the 4800 type you discussed a while back?