The key thing is POE is tested for “differences” in application performance no home user will ever see. HUGE bundles of cable with the center cable insulated from cooling of any sort. This puts the maximum strain on the plastics so really good materials are needed to pass the extreme UL bundled tests. How far above the limits you go is shown as a “current” spec as watts = I squared * R. For a given cable wire size (resistance) the current drawn is the HEAT that will be dropped across the cable and not the load at the end. This heat has to go somewhere.
This is what we have to work with, and we see RESISTANCE as variable we can alter. Voltage and current are fixed. We reduce the resistance to mitigate the watts dropped across the cable. This is what 4800 does.
For home use, the cable is not even close to being covered in layers and layers of other cable so no worries on 100 watt POE at all. The 4800 is a super worst case POE design where cable is put into HOT enviromental settings that already limit the heat ceiling. You can’t get the cable hotter than the JACKET and INSULATION plastics specs allow. So 20C room to a 30C room REMOVE POE power levels as it is already 10C hotter just sitting there in the building wire closet in Florida as an example. To get around this, you have to REDUCE the wire DCR as it is all there is left to improving the POE power handling.
For the home 1000BASET use, I’d go with DT600e 7852A or 7851A as it is better than 4800 at 1000BASET headroom and uses smaller cheaper copper size. 100 watt POE is fine until you go to worst of the worst bundles in hot locations. We have a 4800 series cable for that.
For across the board install, I’d use 10GXS series 6A cable as it will run everything and meets 100 watt POE no sweat. It is smaller and easy to manage cable, too. You will need to use 10G rated plugs and jacks to see 10G, though. Standard RJ won’t work so be aware of that bottleneck. Most don’t use the right connectivity, or are aware of how different 10G RJ’s are inside, plug and jack.
The connectors are more important than the cable (not near 100 meter lengths) and home use users don’t bundle cable in worst case test configurations where the alien test is even a factor. We have a single run of cable…no “alien” cables to worry about. Poor connectors can kill ANY Ethernet cable’s performance.
The way specs are made and when they are important is sometimes not clear, I hear you there! Ethernet is a worst of the worst spec requirement and few are ever there.
has me a little worried, as I will be running the Ethernet through my Florida attic. That space gets pretty hot in the summer! So would I still be okay with your other recommendations with PoE? What are the differences between 7852A, 7851A, and 10GXS?
DT600e series verses 4800 are the copper size with 4800 slightly larger where DT600e has slightly better BW specs. Your attic won’t get anywhere near as hot as an internal cable in a UL test bundle running max power.
Go to the Belden web catalog and use the following three choices;
7851A
4812
10GXS62
Each meet Article 800, CMR;CMR-LP (0.5A);CL3R-LP (0.5A) POE+ rating.
POE is around 48V at 0.5A max so 48V* 0.5A= 24watts per pair, more or less 100 watts across all four pairs. Most devices in the home will never pull this power level.
A very few office spaces use laptop PC’s that use 65 watts and can power fully off POE through the RJ and need no external power other than an RJ connector. Kind of cleans up the office space.
Hi Tony, I did not see a message from you. I am definitely here and able to answer questions and help anyone. Make sure messages are sent to bhoward@iconoclastcable.com or texts to 850-860-0940. I’m sorry I missed your message!
At BJC we (Kurt) looked at all of the options for 10G applications. The end result is what at Belden is referred to as a “Y” part number meaning “special/custom” product that is produced for a single customer and is usually “private labeled” for that customer.
So, at BJC we offer a Belden Y cable branded as BJC C6P. This is essentially the same cable as 4800 but rather than a 23 AWG is a 24 AWG bonded pair. This cable uses a beefy “double-h” spline to maintain pair separation not only between the pairs within the cable but also between the pairs and the outer jacket, to control alien crosstalk (AXT.) C6P is CMR rated, offers a 167’ degree operating temperature and has an “in-wall but not plenum” rating. US made in the Belden plant. Each cable comes to you terminated with Sentinel connectors. Each cable is individually tested and provides certified performance along with the test certificate. I believe that individual certification is a must component.
Galen may add if there is some reason that 4800 or any of the other 10GX32 type cables would be better suited in an audio system. I use our C6P with a 65’ run through a Florida attic to feed my PS Audio DS DAC and have perfect results.
Almost forgot, in addition to certified terminated assemblies we also offer C6p in bulk rolls unterminated.
Well, I wish I had known this sooner, Bob. The 10GX32, Belden 6E rated terminated cables just arrived. Are these others that you described “better”?
BTW, the cables I got had no testing certificate. The guy at BJC I placed the order with said the Belden keystone jack terminated 10GX cables could not be so tested with their equipment.
I enjoyed our call Tony and thank you for the nice comments!
For the benefit of others, Tony mentioned that he did not receive a test sheet with his 10GX32 cables. At BJC we do issue a performance certification and test certificate on all “patch cords” that are terminated with an RJ45 connector.
In-wall runs of 10GX32 type cables are as a rule, run unterminated as the cable path is often restricted and sometimes shared with other data and/or AV cables. They are mostly then “keystone,” field terminated by a tech or homeowner with the use of a punch down tool and connector. In Tony’s case, he just moved into a new home and all of his termination/punch down tools are somewhere in a box. He asked that we pre-terminate the cables that he ordered with the Belden “Keystone” female jacks so that he can get up and running. As those of us who have done such moves know, “who knows” when he will unpack and come across his tools? So, he plans to provide “new and unshared” 1" bores through framing members to pull these cables through. He is knowledgeable on pulling cables and should have no issues completing the 4-runs necessary to complete the 10G circuit in his new home.
We are happy to accommodate such requests. However, our test equipment does not include the necessary adaptors to provide a channel certification on a cable of this type. Before Tony’s order shipped we did perform a series of test using certified patch cords for continuity and from what I understand a pass/fail test procedure without actually having the ability to measure the complete performance parameters associated with a “channel certification.” A proper channel certification would really have to be done on the completed circuit, “onsite.” That channel certification would be an end-to-end test inclusive of the in-wall runs, jacks and patch cords together.
I believe that once completed, Tony’s system will work beautifully!
I know I’d mentioned that I’d been moving in other threads, and to some it may seem like I’ve been moving for a year! Truth be told, I have been! Between trips up and down the East Coast, travel adjustments in the world of COVID-19, and family things up North, it’s taken me a while to get up and going! But things are finally starting to come together, in clumsy crude ways to begin. To wit - my sound room so far!
Double H-spline is the DT600e series which uses 0.0235" copper. I’d have to see what the process master/ BOM is to know exactly what was changed, other than a print legend, to b a Y-item number. For all but the worst situations, 24 AWG CAT6 and up will run 1000baseT fine.
For 10G you need to use a special cable for worst of the worst bundled cable ALIEN NEXT. This isn’t something you’ll experience in a home use run though.
There is a TIA TSB (Technical Service Bulletin / TSB-155-A: Guidelines for the Assessment and Mitigation of Installed Category 6 Cabling to Support 10GBASE-T test spec to qualify CAT6 and up cable to 10G that is already installed. This is in the TIA document and most tray bundles of CAT6 can go pretty far, but not the full 100 meters. ALIEN NEXT can not be cancelled like internal NEXT can as ANEXT is random. We know what the input signal is and we can use a form of comparative feedback to remove NEXT distortion at the NIC card.
The in-wall testing test Bob refers to with punch-down jacks is a “permanent link” test and is done on the longer part of the channel that stays in the wall. The jacks are not as difficult to p[properly terminate as the PLUGS, but the right series has to be used to achieve 1000baseT or 10baseT that use equalization components inside.
Curiously, I built a new streaming PC as the old one was EOL to upgrade to W11 requirements. As a result, I had to re-build my software side; J.River and MINIMSERVER on the PC.
What was interesting, is that I now use J.River to stream native DSD512 to the DAC. ALL sources, AIFF, WAV, FLAC are resampled to native DSD512. THAT does not change the data at all as the bandwidth of information is the same (or even worse after messing with the data!) but the DAC’s filters are changed for a PCM type to a DSD type.
It seems from what I’ve read, that a higher native DSD rate improves how accurate a DA filter can be , and THAT is what we hear as the imporvement. I’d have to say I’m pretty convinced at this point that a DAC that uses DSD properly and is fed native DSD at a higher rate is better sounding, and is in my case.
I know PS Audio is a DSD house and from this I can “hear” why. To my ear the DSD filters do seem to get it done better than pure PCM. I know, I know, all the data we have is PCM mastered so it makes no difference. That isn’t it, the difference is that the DSD DA FILTERS are more accurate with DSD based design reviewing the tech papers on digital filter designs. We hear the better filters over the conversion errors going PCM to high rate DSD. We gain more than we lose in the process.
You need a good DAC that can play native DSD512 and the proper USB driver in W10 to stop windows from changing the USB stream to the DAC, from J.River in my case.
Try to get true native DSD512 conversion and tell me what you hear. I hear a better more open dynamic (probably the clarity tricks you into hearing dynamics) sound. The DSD filter design that referenced DSD1024 in my DAC is still better than the PCM filter.
Undoubtably the PS Audio DS DAC also leverages this technology, too. I think this is a real advantage to high DSD rates and DSD so my experiences sure back-up Ted’s design and why the DS DAC is so good for the money on the playback side. I’m two for two on DSD being better than PCM for my taste. It is a FILTER difference between PCM and DSD that we are hearing. This isn’t made-up at all and the crazy data rate isn’t really the improvement so much as the filter errors are improved the higher you go it seems with DSD. True, you have to make the DAC with that all in mind.
Its been sort of quiet here of late! This image is proof that the audiophile condition may be hazardous to your bank account. Overkill? Wire concealment at its best. I hope everyone is well in this crazy world and ready for cooler weather.
Yes those statement Iconoclast power cables Galen is developing might perk my ears up. But happily still using the Iconoclast speaker cables in Bi-wire, with jumpers , Gen 2 ICs, and a BAV power cord on my P20.
My only BAV cord is my only 20 Amp IEC C19 connector. So I have yet to compare it to other audiophile cords. Galen did use some audiophile cords to prepare his tech papers.
So would I still be okay with your other recommendations with PoE? What are the differences between 7852A, 7851A, and 10GXS?
Are these others that you described “better”?
Truth be told, I have been! 
Between trips up and down the East Coast, travel adjustments in the world of COVID-19, and family things up North, it’s taken me a while to get up and going! But things are finally starting to come together, in clumsy crude ways to begin. To wit - my sound room so far! 
