The sooner Belden sort out international distribution the better. You people in the USA think it’s hard getting them, try living & ordering from Australia. 
wglenn said Translated from Galen's native tongue, Engineerish, the cheap ones kick butt.Oh, OK. I actually did that with the XLO Reference 3 nine years ago when I bought the entry level that sounded better than the pro line because, although they used better copper, it was thinner gage and actually didn't sound any better.
Frank, isn’t the USD falling at the moment, so shouldn’t prices get more favorable for you?
SSS yes usd falling but we have to deal with the outlets in the USA. Poor communication, transferring USD $$ (electronic) and then shipping can be a nightmare. I’m in Houston for the next 10days but couldn’t sort out speaker/interconnect cables in the last 10days. Also I don’t think we get the luxury of returning the product like you folks do (not that I would since I’ve already got some).
Question: What do I do with the old speaker wire if I get these? Should I bi-wire the speaker using the XLO for the woofer or just use the Iconoclast for both woofer/tweeter as Galen designed it for that?
Just use the Iconoclast and jump the separate inputs.
What he said. No question.
Still debating. Had to work out speaker problem first (discussed in another forum, but that seems to be fixed so far)
My interconnects are PS Audio Xstream Transcendent: 2 sets of 1m cables, on set for each DAC to preamp and preamp to amp. The Transcendent are 18 gage solid silver on very short 1 meter runs to keep losses minimized. Would the 1.5 meter TPC Iconoclast sound any better?
Sigh. Only one way to find out, I suppose.
then there are the speaker cables. I did something unusual when I ordered the XLO Reference3’s: Right channel uses a 12 foot length, left channel only has a 10 foot length as my electronics rack is offset to the left side of the TV. I could put the amp in the middle and just use 10 foot speaker cables but that’d mean I need longer XLR interconnects and a longer power cable to the P10. So it might just be easier to get more length on the speaker cable and leave it at that.
I’m pondering on which to get first, if at all. (Really, the Xstream and XLO’s aren’t bad . . )
SSW I’ve still got a pair of those Xstream Transcendents. Actually had tried to buy some more here not too far back. Let us know how the comparison goes. And if you decide to sell yours, lemme know 
I would try the speaker wire first. Galen is developing a new version of the interconnects that are worth waiting for.
wglenn said I would try the speaker wire first. Galen is developing a new version of the interconnects that are worth waiting for.Thank you, sir. I'm still pondering, but I had a question for you (and Galen, if you can get it to him). 9 years ago I bought the XLO Reference 3 speaker cables. See https://www.xloelectric.com/technology.html for their tech. It sounds like they considered the same sort of effects that Galen mentions in his articles printed in Copper. When I bought the XLOs I auditioned them against the Acoustic Zen (popular at the time) and the XLOs blew them away.
I wonder if there’d be an improvement with the Iconoclast TPC over the XLO (I really can’t afford much else than the TPC)
Thanks.
–SSW
The TPC are great. It’s the design that provides the vast majority of the benefit and the conductor changes are subtle. The only way to know if you will like one is better than the other in your system is to listen; kind of our mantra here. Keep in mind that you can trial them for free. Check my PM that I sent you if you haven’t already.
I am so impressed with the Iconoclast cable I will bet you will find them better. They are truly superb cables.
And yes, it still bothers me that wire has a sound - no matter how old this fact happens to be.
Same here, on both counts. And now there are new versions (Iconoclast 2)?
will someone be posting comments on the changes in Iconoclast 2? when are they available? Did the price change?
From Galen,
The new design improves current coherence (current magnitude through the conductors with respect to frequency) and phase (lower inductance. The higher capacitance is immaterial as the first order slope is WAY, WAY, WAY above audible…but phase effects are through the audio band so it is better to bias the design to lower inductance if you can hold cap low. The chart in the attached paper shows the 1x4 conductor lowers DCR and flattens the higher frequency Rs slope.
Wire. Let’s discuss that a second….new modern ETPC copper matches what is called OF copper (above OFHC). Audiophiles seem to think that ETPC is furnace sludge. Well, they had to “invent” OF as ETPC was well crossed over into OFHC territory and even into OF for impurities (bullet chart below). The number of nines isn’t the problem with wire. The next issue is the copper grains, which are formed by the heat and the draw speed…and I think that is what causes differences in the sound. But, the ETPC with super SMALL wires in interconnects is excellent sounding…better than a lesser design (the single wire conductor) with $$$ single crystal copper.
The goal is to make really good leads at $ prices over $$$. The interconnect design change has done exactly that, and eclipsed the UP OCC. Would UP OCC sound “better” than the ETPC? Possibly, but with the improvement SMALL 0.010” wires allow, the differences are compressed to a much smaller degree making the expense of the UP OCC less and issue than before.
Silver? This metal does not have large benefits to audio as the DCR isn’t an issue. Silver has a shallower skin depth penetration size matched to copper (see tech article). If you can make wire with copper in the same size as silver, copper is a better, more coherent, metal for interconnects. If we adjust the DCR (speaker leads) to be the same as copper by making the silver wires smaller it is a wash as the smaller silver now approaches copper skin depth penetration ending up about the same but at a HUGE difference in price. So silver isn’t the panacea people want it to be.
- C10100 - also known as Oxygen-Free Electronic (OFE). This is a 99.99% pure copper with 0.0005% oxygen content. It achieves a minimum 101% IACS conductivity rating. This copper is finished to a final form in a carefully regulated, oxygen-free environment. Silver (Ag) is considered an impurity in the OFE chemical specification. This is also the most expensive of the three grades listed here.
- C10200 - also known as Oxygen-Free (OF). While OF is considered oxygen-free, its conductivity rating is no better than the more common ETP grade below. It has a 0.001% oxygen content, 99.95% purity and minimum 100% IACS conductivity. For the purposes of purity percentage, silver (Ag) content is counted as copper (Cu).
- C11000 - also known as Electrolytic-Tough-Pitch (ETP). This is the most common copper. It is universal for electrical applications. ETP has a minimum conductivity rating of 100% IACS and is required to be 99.9% pure. It has 0.02% to 0.04% oxygen content (typical). Most ETP sold today will meet or exceed the 101% IACS specification. As with OF copper, silver (Ag) content is counted as copper (Cu) for purity purposes.
Galen Gareis
wglenn saidFrom Galen,
The goal is to make really good leads at $ prices over $$$… ICONOCLAST is designed to be a tremendous VALUE based on better DESIGN. The series II interconnects move the bar further in that direction.
Galen Gareis
So, will this translate into markedly cheaper prices for the series II interconnects?
Sorry, I have no idea. These cables are so new that Galen is just constructing the first single-ended versions for testing now. I have the new XLR version (TPC only) and they have easily replaced the previous XLR using single crystal copper ('spensive ones). In the respect that the previous top level performance has been bested by the “cheap” copper using this design, then yes, they are a massively better BFB by comparison. Much of the previous cost is still present in their production, however.
Is a current price list available?
wglenn saidI have the new XLR version (TPC only) and they have easily replaced the previous XLR using single crystal copper ('spensive ones).
I too find the new cable geometry with cheaper copper to better the old geometry with the “good stuff”. The older cables never quite sat right for me, but the new ones just slipped into my system and sounded great from the get go.
Are the new cables still stiff and tightly coiled like razor wire? I found the originals impossible to use because of their unwillingness to straighten out.