Belden ICONOCLAST Interconnects and Speaker Cabling

I have a REL and use their Neutrik for high level connection. I also use the sub for for HT and I was enquiring about that application.

I do the same with my subs, dual use. I still say the Iconoclast would be wasted on a sub signal but get one and try it out for 30 days.

Thanks for your input Brett and advice Bob!

Some have asked about the series II and if we just ginned up the design for more $$$. No, ICONOCLAST is a DIRECT line of evolution with accepted engineering practice and measure through equations and actual R, L and C.

The result of a standard shielded star quad arrangement, and using difference amplifiers, is that the NOISE is ATTENUATED (braid) and cancelled (passive CMRR and difference amplifier) both. This insures that the “null” between the wires is as close to perfect as you can get. There is no such thing as a “perfectly balanced” or shielded cable. There will be a remainder after the balance amplifier, and this is the limit of noise reduction. Braids are 80 dB external to the cable on EMI and RFI and an additional 30-40 dB internal to the cable with CMRR star quad arrangement. Low frequency noise (60 Hz) sees ONLY the 30-dB CMRR ratio of the star quad since the copper braid is invisible to low frequencies.

The series II improves upon the typical star quad XLR’s ability to just remove noise. Series II adds SIGNAL field cancellation to lower inductance, improved DCR and current coherence in each wire.

Series II ICONOCALST actually improves THREE significant items too much improve ANALOG cable performance.

A new “conductor” was designed that uses four electrically isolated wires (sixteen in the XLR!). This signal wire star quad arrangement provides, in theory, 100% electromagnetic SIGNAL field reduction between the four wires. Something that the standard XLR cable can’t do. This, in theory, removes the signal current field in the wire lowering inductance.

The second advantage is that SMALLER wires improved current coherence based on a deeper skin depth penetration at all frequencies than four larger wires. This compresses arrival time due to dielectric changes across the audio band.

The use of four smaller wires for each signal wire also sums to a much lower DCR so unbalanced ground loop voltage differences are less a problem. For a given current the lower the resistance of the wire the lower the interference voltage.

Add all those up and we have a calculated and measurably improved cable. The inductance drops 27% to 0.11 uH/foot nominal from 0.15 uH/foot. This is a significant drop, as the proximity of the wires has to also be considered with respect to increased capacitance, which is still way low at 17.5 pF/foot from 12.5 pF/foot in the generation ones. PHASE is directly related to inductance in the audio band, where capacitance is the first order filters roll off, and is well above the audio band. BOTH should, of course, be zero. Audibly inductance is the guiding reactive element.

If inductance drops all being the same, capacitance has to RISE. This is the law of reactive element in cable. A BALANCE of low inductance (how close the wires are) has to be cognizant of capacitance (the dielectric value of the space between the wires). The series II is a superbly well balanced analog cable.

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Some will argue that grain direction can be matched in XLR as “from” to “to”. I have ZERO evidence that MEASURABLE values of some sort impact “alternating” current in musical signals. Grain direction based on current reversals in sinusoidal signals seems to be a wash. I have changed directions in RCA cable that uses just one wire so no issues with mix-ups. In one or two flips you’ve covered the options! I’m unable to discern a difference so it is taken off the shelf as an attribute, and the cost to manage it.

Belden has also has zero evidence that measurable COPPER grains impact the sound, but my ear can indeed hear a difference. Grains are REAL, and can be seen but direct evidence to a measurable electrical signal outside of resistivity (a passive variable) does not exist so I can’t say WHY the wire matters, though. To that end it is an OPTION as the electromagnetic design is 100% unchanged so those that want to see about this material property have a truly identical design, except the copper material to trial. We pass on the higher and higher cost of the copper. This is as fair as we can be on this issue.

The Newtonian world of electromagnetic waves starts in the Quantum world. Every moving electron throws off a photon in a direction perpendicular to the travel of the electron. This isn’t perpendicular to the wire surface, though. The transition from Quantum to Newtonian isn’t well understood, if understood at all. Is the arrangement of the mostly “air space” copper atoms due to the grain altering the PHASE of the frequencies and that we are very sensitive to from Quantum to Newtonian? Attenuation is a non issue at audio, so that’s, to me, not a consideration. But remember, the final electromagnetic wave is a SUPERPOSITION of (inset lager number here) waves in the Newtonian realm. The direction and angle matter in that final superposition. Information isn’t lost to any degree, but may change in phase.

Sorry, but I don’t have any more VOODOO than that in ICONOCLAST. Everything else is measured or calculated with industry accepted practices to reach R, L and C. That’s what we sell. The reactive impact in your system is the SOUND the R, L and C provide.

Galen Gareis

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No, I use Belden reference designs as comparison. Knowing the exact same science does not mean that the exact same cable would be made by two vendors. Every R, L and C is a fingerprint, and will “react” differently.

ICONOCLAST shows HOW and WHY the decisions were made to match R, L and C in the RCA and XLR designs such that the sound is near the same. And, we show what was done to REACH the critical attributes measured on every assembly.

Other vendors need to show you their design data, not Belden. We don’t do design comparisons for any of our other products, either. We stick to our knitting and design as we feel the science dictates to us. The papers are all referencing OUR products.

Galen Gareis

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Galen, sometimes I don’t know how your brain could possibly fit into your head. There has got to be a few extra wrinkles in your cortex that the rest of us just don’t have.:sunglasses:

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Thank you, Galen! Great stuff

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Indeed!

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I’m preferring the TPC but need more time with OFE. OFE is somewhat more forward and not on the warm side in my system.

10+ hours later, the character of the OFE has changed quite a bit. More bass, I guess more warm, still sibilant on poorly recorded tracks.

I like both for their respective qualities. It will be a difficult decision.

Sure seems like there’s way more good voodoo in there than is fully understood. :wink:

Got my speaker cables nestled in my luggage as I jet from LAX -> Munich -> LHR, a week or so catching up with family, then LHR -> Frankfurt -> HKG -> ADL. I hope all the magic doesn’t dissipate on the way. LOL

We probably should have met between Santa Cruz and LA last week. Got in some great trails with my son. We rented a Santa Cruz Tallboy and a 5010 and tore it up for a few days!

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Frank, I assume you got the southern hemisphere versions since the electrons spin in the opposite direction down under. :grin: Seriously, I bet you’ll love them.

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Sure hope so Steve. This will complete the “loom” of Iconoclast cables from source to speakers. Yes - specially blended for “Downunder”. :laughing:

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Any reviews of the Belden ICONOCLAST cables? Hard to find any information other than this thread.

Hi Wglenn,
Which version of the TB did you get, long travel or standard? I like my TB but would like a LT version. There isn’t really a bad model in the SC bike quiver.

Regular version. I would like to demo a Hightower, myself, because that is where I think I would like to be as well.I have serious MTB fever right now…

@Gary_M: This is pretty much it but I think that the situation is about to change now that Galen and Bob are teamed up with BJC. These cables, although fully developed, have been difficult to find physically or on the web.

No commercial/industry reviews yet other than a long list of positive comments and notes from beta testers and customers. The science and the measurements speak for themselves. I’m waiting for a “real” website that Kurt is finalizing now before turning on the heat on getting the word out and driving interest. We need a place where information is centralized and properly arranged for audiophiles and potential customers to find and review. There is a wealth of information. Initially this push will be made through blogs. Can anyone recommend other locations where I should be looking to get the word out? The PS Audio blog is great and the work Galen provided for Copper issues sure drove interest for a while. I am grateful we are welcomed here!

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Hi Bob, who do I contact to get more information?

You will love the Hightower. I have one and am still exploring all its capabilities. There are a number of great bikes in this category now as well.