Ted and Will, thanks for the replies. I didn’t think Belden would play the audiophile pricing game, just a little difficult to comprehend the difference in price between their run of the mill wire versus the Iconoclast. Even though I am an Engineer I have no manufacturing experience, so making that leap in price is a head scratcher (to put it nicely). I liked Galen’s reply, especially his comment … “DO listen to BOTH the TPC and OF speaker cable versions. They are frighteningly close, and consumers need to know this. To some, ANY difference is “huge” so I let you decide, and your wallet.” Amen to that! I really tire of folks who say how something blows this or that away, but when I listen I think, yeah it’s a little better, but “blown away”. No. I know this is all perspective, but let’s keep it rational.
The run of the mill Belden speaker wire and the Iconoclast line have only copper and the name in common. The Iconoclast are made on machines that produce losses for other cable lines when they are used for the tiny runs of Iconoclast and accounting makes them factor this in. This represents a big opportunity cost that is unfortunate but unavoidable considering how much other cable doesn’t get made when the Iconoclast setup and run occurs. Obviously, there are other costs but this is a big one that Belden has that the other “audiophile” manufacturers do not. The scale of the other companies is minuscule compared to Belden and they do not have the machinery to produce this design of cable. In some ways, being big hurts the price of the cable. Of course, without their size and without Galen, these would not have been made.
I’d phrase part of that differently, most companies don’t have the equipment to manufacture the ICONCLAST cables at all, only Belden or the like could do it but Belden as you said the setup time and the time used for building ICONOCLAST cables cost by looses the opportunity for building other things. The design of the speaker cables is quite intricate and actually a thing of beauty, but is clearly beyond the “guy in a garage” or most smaller companies even if they could buy all of the requisite wire with the correct dielectric, etc.
Strange that only one mentioned MIT cables (in the devialetchat forum) and even not in comparison to Belden. I wonder how Iconoclast compares to MIT Oracle. They are in the same price category as the old Oracle 3.x series.
Nothing “strange” about this; many are unimpressed with MIT cables. They are far from a universal gold standard.
Let’s not waste time and space discussing MIT’s cables, networks, etc. in this Belden thread.
+1
Still no sign of them on website.
Now I want to try some. But I need to do so online. (OZ)
Yes, it seems that Belden has not yet produced a website for these products and I am not sure when they are due to have one. It would be nice if Hanson at least acknowledged Iconoclast on their website. The purchasing mechanism at Belden is just getting in gear and currently sales are being personally managed by Galen. The lead termination process is ready to go, however, so Galen doesn’t have to do them himself anymore. One of our forum members is purchasing leads and should hopefully have them by next week.
Not sure what to tell the good folks down in OZ yet. There are interested parties there but how to get them auditioned is beyond me. I’m sure something will be worked out eventually. Keep in mind that most of the world has no idea that Belden has jumped into the audiophile cabling ring and the marketing and sales process is just getting underway with no official big release in the audio press.
Elk said Nothing "strange" about this; many are unimpressed with MIT cables. They are far from a universal gold standard.I do not want to discuss MIT cables, I AM impressed with MIT cables, and I DO own them, hence my interest in the comparison between MIT Oracle and Iconoclast.Let’s not waste time and space discussing MIT’s cables, networks, etc. in this Belden thread.
Any additional comparison or information about the Belden’s would be interesting. If they were compared to the MIT’s, I could read about the MITs and take a guess. If they were compared to Steve Hoffman’s favourite cables (Steve recently featured as someone worthy of giving a world class video endorsement of the DS DAC, so hence the reference to his authority), then I could take that information and make a more educated guess.
Comparisons are useful. To the extend Belden Iconoclasts are going to be interesting to the people here, who already have cables, then it would usually be with respect to some standard, or point of comparison, possibly the cables they already have.
Ted’s been very clear about build quality.
Green Machine said To the extend Belden Iconoclasts are going to be interesting to the people here, who already have cables...How can anyone be active here not having at least one pair of cables!?! Oh wait... wireless, I forgot. Nevermind!
Alekz said . . . comparison between MIT Oracle and Iconoclast.If someone has heard both and has a direct comparison to offer this would be great. Just as it would be with any other comparison of a given specific cable with the new Belden offerings
I am jumping in aggressively as there is a history of sidetracking otherwise useful threads with off-topic interjections of preferred products, claims of superior operating systems, etc. We are not going there. This thread is about Belden cable.
Back to your regularly scheduled on-topic programming . . .
The Belden products are so new that they haven’t “made the rounds” yet. We are discussing them here but there is very little to no discussion elsewhere currently. The horse is out of the barn but just his nose is out. So far, the behind the scenes reviews that have been done for Belden are strikingly similar when describing the sound quality of the cables. If you give mine a read you will get one way of describing these characteristics. It is my understanding that these initial reviews will be made public after all in the group have had a chance to have their say. To attempt to limit influence, they have been kept under wraps from the other reviewers until they have completed and submitted their review, although the proverbial cat is out of the proverbial bag with my comments. I will say that the people in this group were chosen based partially upon their ability to be independent with their thoughts. I have not heard MIT cables for many years so I cannot comment.
Cat out of the bag, horse out of the barn, camel nose under the tent . . . a slippery slope indeed.
It is very striking how similar the reports of the Belden cables have been, essentially turning a seemingly subjective evaluation process into an objective measurement. I will note here only that they are superb.
Now Elk, don’t go all gushy on us…
Ok, that’s pretty much good enough for me.
Thanks Elk + WGlenn + unnamed expert reviewer group that thinks unspecified but similar good things.
I am not a member of the expert group referenced above (appropriate since I am certainly no expert on speaker cables). I did order a set of 10-foot TPC speaker cables with the Cardas 9mm spades and they came yesterday. For those looking for comparisons to megabucks cables, sorry but you’ll have to wait a bit longer. I have long recognized that my speaker cables are (were) the weak link in my system. I’m a bit of a cheapskate when it comes to cables (especially speaker cables) and I rebelled at the idea of spending $6k or $7k for a set of cables, which is the price range where a lot of recommendations seemed to start (and go up from there). So I dithered and was still using the PS Audio xStream Statement cables I bought a dozen years or so ago. (I also have Kimber 8TC’s but prefer the xStreams.) The xStreams were good cables for the day and a great value. As I vaguely recall they were a little less than half the price of the Iconoclasts (at the lengths I got) but, adjusting for inflation, the difference in cost is probably not huge. The Iconoclasts are stiff but not so much so that it presented a problem installing them (changing cables in my system is a royal pain as I have to disconnect the amp from the preamp at the preamp and pull the BHK 250 out of my rack, then pray nothing gets disconnected when I put everything back together–last night the power cord pulled out just enough so the amp wouldn’t come on; it’s always something but not the cables’ fault).
As for the sound, here’s the heart of what I emailed to Galen last night (by getting in early I was lucky enough to have the man himself make and test my cables and exchanged several emails with him): “If I had to describe my reaction in two words they’d be ‘holy sh*t’. If I had to describe the cables in two words they’d be ‘amazingly coherent.’ Across the full spectrum, instruments and voices come through with amazing clarity. Galen obviously knows his stuff when it comes to phase and timing (at least that’s how I would describe it). It’s most obvious with more complex music. It’s never been so easy for me to pick out everything that’s going on.”
A prime example of that was “Attaboy” from “The Goat Rodeo Sessions” (88/24) by Yo-Yo Ma, Stuart Duncan, Edgar Meyer and Chris Thile. It has never sounded so vibrant. Yo-Yo’s cello was crisp and clear and so were all the other instruments. The soundstage is wider than deeper than I thought was possible in my undersized listening room. I would not describe the Iconoclasts as “lifting a (proverbial) veil”. Rather, they seem to eliminate some smearing that I didn’t really realize was there until it was gone. Like I said, these things are amazingly coherent across the whole spectrum. These cables have greatly increased my appreciation of my DS and BHK 250 by showing even more clearly how great those components really are.
I really don’t have a lot to add to what wglenn said in post 31 at the top of page 2 of this thread. I agree with pretty much everything he said. He’s not exaggerating. I understand his enthusiasm both for the products and for their designer, who obviously put his heart and soul into these cables because of his love of music and the high end. I can’t say that these cables beat the megabucks competitors because I haven’t heard them in my system. I can say they are great cables and, in my view, well worth the money. I’m now saving up for the Iconoclast interconnects.
As wglenn said, Galen believes that construction is more important than the materials and he encourages folks to listen to the low end Iconoclasts before shelling out for the premium versions. I think that says a lot about his approach.
Btw, Hanson offers a 14-day return and cables are available to try at home (I didn’t ask the details). My cables are not going back.
I’m attaching a photo of my cables that Galen sent after they were completed (the spades look kind of gold in the photo but they are silvery rhodium in real life).
I wish I could say more.
stevem2 said . . . since I am certainly no expert on speaker cables.This does not prevent the rest of us from opining.
Nope. No requirement you’ve even heard the cables to have an opinion. 
Although it does help. I was actually encouraged to share my views, no doubt because the expert group will not be swayed by my opinions.