Belden ICONOCLAST Interconnects and Speaker Cabling

Cables
1266

Galen,
I received my 5 foot SPTPC set. I installed them with direct connection to the tweeter array versus using the plate jumpers afnd the binding posts. I am not sure if it was the shorter cable or connection point of binding post but sound seemed to improve. I was connected first to woofer array and jumper plate to mids and highs. Then changed with the shorter cable since Iconoclast corrects phase best at high frequency. At least per your graphs.

Any opinions what binding post is bests for iconoclast design?

How about recommendations of which style of binding post jumpers?

Thanks,

1267

Vmax,

The chosen connector determines the fit to your binding point.

7mm spade fits bare or shrouded (like DynAudio uses) WBT posts. These are KEYED (two flats on the posts) so they can’t rotate.

9mm spade fit largest diameter spades, and they are mounted farther apart to prevent shorts if the spades rotate when tightening the post.

Shotgun banana, no intermediate spade adapter, fit WBT center hole size and most all typical banana ports. The shotgun banana low profile connection works well with low profile pizza box units.

The spade to banana adapters orient the cables DOWN or UP from the banana port where it eases cable routing in some applications.

Galen

1268

That is the concept that I use when connecting speakers with a jumper involved at the terminal. Since skin effect shouldn’t come into play at the lower frequencies so I figure this does the least damage. If it sounds better to you, then it is as far as you are concerned. After all, you are your target audience.

1269

@kcleveland123: We got a little defensive about our favorite cables. Your question is a damn good one and I don’t have an answer for you. It bothers me and it bothers Galen, too. -But- I think that the phase damage done to the signal by cabling has been largely overlooked and at least the repair to this aspect of our equipment gets us a little “closer” to the music. Crossovers are nasty, problematic necessities in most cases. I designed my speaker system to be crossover-less above 150Hz… well, not quite, the RD 75 driver requires a notch filter so I didn’t get away Scot free. That all runs straight out of the DAC to the Pre to the amp and speakers. Everything below this runs via a second DAC output through digital crossovers to several amplifiers for the bass. I can shut off the entire bass part of the system and listen (almost) x-over free. Despite this, the effect on my system that the cabling provides is similar (if not the same) on other, more traditional systems where passive crossovers are involved. Why is this? Umm…I don’t know :laughing:. Bottom line, get a set and try. I chose the Beta team members because they have good ears and level heads. This kept at least a little bias out of the chain since Galen didn’t choose them initially. It was no coincidence that three of them were directly involved in the DS DAC development, including Ted. They were picky and pointed out what they did not like, which I hope was useful to Galen. He took the criticism professionally and not personally. I encourage you give them a go. Remember, before his journey began, Galen laughed off the idea that cables, even well designed ones, could make a substantial impact on the sound. I’m glad that he proved his initial theory wrong.

1270

Galen

I am based in Ireland and it is not possible for me to try Iconclast interconnect and speaker cables with different types of copper. Import duty and VAT would be chargeable on all the cables even the ones that I was returning.

From posts on this forum it appears that the TPC cables sound brighter and faster than the OFE which is warmer and more laid back. Which is the more neutral or natural sounding copper? TPC, OFE or OCC. Logically one would assume that the copper with fewer impurities and grain boundaries would be the most neutral and natural sounding. Is the brightness in the TPC an artifact cased by its technical properties? Is the OFE copper attenuating the brightness? Is the sound of the OCC copper closer to the TPC or OFE? I have a highly resolving system and require neutral cables.

As a mechanical engineer I really appreciate that the Iconoclast cables were designed using proven theory rather than subjective opinion. I also appreciate how open you have been in describing the technical aspects of the cables. Many high end cable manufacturers do not disclose any technical details. Some even manufacture cables which are clearly flawed.

Are there any plans to manufacture Iconoclast power cords? I would imagine that properly designed low inductance power cords, that attenuate RFI and also with very low ground impedance would sound tremendous.

Thank you.

1271

Welcome, audio_1!

1272

Greetings and welcome. Galen will surely respond to your message. But, as one of the the BJC/Iconoclast team I want respond as well. Your take from the forum comments are right on track. Your system as described will without question, best be served in speaker leads by our SPTPC cables. I have skipped to the chase and am quite confident that if you try them, you will keep them. I will also check with the plant for their understanding of the laws in Ireland with regard to purchase/returns taxes. I will or the Kurt at the plant will get back to you on this. Thank you for your interest.

Bob @ BJC

1273

I was actually wondering whether to use the stock McIntosh triwire plate or seek out another jumper high midd to bass array binding post. The current shorting plate is a flat gold plated copper that threads through the center of the three in line binding posts.

Was pondering if a better sound improvement could be had .

Have you considered an Iconclast brand of jumpers perhaps for those with bi-wire and Tri-wire speakers.

Thanks

1274

Wglenn,

Thanks for the reply. I think there is another level of coherency improvement I am picking up going this route hooking to the Tweeter posts first. Or it is comimg from the shorter SPTPC speaker cables or both.

A few searches and Ifound others with the same idea. Nothing beats squeezing out all the performance.

1275

Audio_1,

The copper draw technology impacts interconnect differently than speaker cable. ALL ICONOCLAST sound really good, I actually developed the line with the TPC first, as to me that is by far the best value going for customers.

I use Martin Logan CLX and experience no hardness at all that isn’t sourced in the recording. ICONOCLAST will widen the swing from good to bad, and yes, this will make you squint some at first blush. Coloration pulls visuals and sounds, to a tighter, less accurate, center.

With all the copper types that can properly be processed, Bob is right, the SPTPC speaker cable is the way to go. It does, for REALLY hard to test reasons, add a better sense of space in the soundstage. If SPTPC wasn’t such a value, I’d say go TPC. Our pricing runs tighter than most.

The interconnect seem to be more in-line with better and better neutrality as you go from TPC to OFE to UPOCC copper. That said, in the need 4x4 XLR and 1x4 RCA, the differences are tighter than the speaker cable. This to me is logical as the LOAD a speaker cable sees is far more dynamic.

I don’t agree that fewer grains are, or aren`t, better. I accept what sounds good, and this is why TPC copper and silver plated TPC copper is used in speaker cable and interconnects, it flat works. The Audio Bacon guys were interested, as well as surprised, by the SPTPC speaker cable coppers performance. No one question believing TPC being the anti-christ to audio. I did, and in well designed cable it works. I chose to copy cat NOTHING but good practice making the cables, with tests or calculation supporting each change. Witness the series II interconnect. People wanted better. It took a year to do it, but it was done. The physics to get there had to be correct, and if that yielded little improvementvexcept cost, well, we know where the knee is in the DESIGN curve. But, the new conductor design did jump in image placement improvements.

Yes, ICONOCLAST goes aginst the “grain” in many ways, but I feel it brings a more transparent technical delivery and reasonable price. No fancy new stuff was used except patented and careful electromagnetic orientation of the wires to manage R, L and C. Same math that’s always been used for 100 years.

The SPTPC speaker cable is still a great value for the patented technology backing up the DESIGN, and independant review analysis back-up in use performance…at any price no less.

Galen

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1276

Galen, Bob

Thanks for the replies. I reckon that I will go with the SPTPC speaker cables and the 1x4 UPOCC RCA interconnects.

1277

Welcome, @audio_1. I have an odd question for you. I noticed that you used the phrase, “I reckon.” Is that a common expression in Ireland? In the US there is a region of the country that was settled by the Scots Irish (Ulster, presumably) that historically used this expression. Yeah, it’s off topic, but it’s my thread! :roll_eyes::laughing:

1278

I’ve used, “I reckon” much of my life. Usually semi-ironically, in an “aw shucks” way, with a fake country accent. Grew up mostly in MI, but 7 of my 8 great-grandparents were Irish. Always interesting where that stuff comes from.

So - got the Speaker wires. Quick question out of curiosity for anyone who knows - is the ETP ETP-1 or regular? i.e. “Three Nines” or two?

1279

Galen or Bob,
Can the Iconoclast speaker cables be made in a Tri-wire version? If so, what would be the minimum recommend lengths with regard to bend radius considerations?

1280

Not to be…iconoclastic or anything, but am I the only one who has issues keeping the alphabet-soup naming of these wires straight? Every time, it requires decoding effort similar to translation from an unfamiliar language. Take a page from other wire manufacturers and give them friendly names, like “Bob” ; )

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1281

Wglen

“I reckon” is not really that common an expression in Ireland. I use it a bit, but would also say “I believe” or “imho”. I am not sure where I picked it up from.

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1282

C11000 - also known as Electrolytic-Tough-Pitch (ETP). This is the most common copper. It is universal for electrical applications. ETP has a minimum conductivity rating of 100% IACS and is required to be 99.9% pure. It has 0.02% to 0.04% oxygen content (typical). Most ETP sold today will meet or exceed the 101% IACS specification. As with OF copper, silver (Ag) content is counted as copper (Cu) for purity purposes.
1000 to 1500 grains

Modern TPC exceeds the above specs. C11000 (ETP) and higher-cost C10200 Oxygen-Free (OF) coppers are identical. This is why I skipped OF grade and use C10100 OFE, described below.

C10100 - also known as Oxygen-Free Electronic (OFE). This is a 99.99% pure copper with 0.0005% oxygen content. It achieves a minimum 101% IACS conductivity rating. This copper is finished to a final form in a carefully regulated, oxygen-free environment. Silver (Ag) is considered an impurity in the OFE chemical specification. This is also the most expensive of the three grades listed here.
30 to 70 grains.

The above is the wire quality used in reduced grain copper. The oxygen content is so low as to be inconsequential.

UPOCC is single grain batch process, so lengths are limited to the initial VOLUME of the draw process. It is NOT a continuous draw, so not all designs can efficiently use that copper.

ICONOCLAST names are pretty simple, speaker, RCA and XLR are labeled with the copper type, TPC, SPTPC, OFE or UPOCC. I went this way instead of meaningless names, like a Bob. Anyone should be able to ID an assembly and what copper is in it. I use the copper copper NAMES verses the numbers as the C series numbers can look nearly the same, and that is confusing. The coppers are described on the web site.

Galen

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1283

Thank you for not using names like Bob that have no relation to the product or it’s function.

Plus, Bob would then need a bigger cut. :wink:

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1284

I got TPC only because I managed to get them before Galen left Belden and TPC was priced much lower than the OFHC and SPTPC. That and the 4x4 XLR were still in prototype stage so Galen made mine by hand. Then, of course, after two months Galen had left and the other, now cheaper, options were opened up, so I’m stuck with TPC.

Don’t mind, tho. TPC seems to be fine in my MartinLogan Spire, but, then again, it’d cost too much to upgrade at this point.

Sounds pretty amazing, in any case.

–SSW

1285

It is still significantly cheaper. And I still have to read through all of those letters and do the Math to have any idea which wires you are referring to ; )

How about Wood, Beer and Plasma?:thinking:

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