Very nice summary, well expressed.
stevem2 said I am holding off on doing any comparison's until Bridge 2 is optimized for sound quality (that includes optimizing the DS firmware; we are using a modified version of Pike's Peak but that has not been optimized either as it keeps changing). So far we are still focusing on functionality. For what it's worth, one beta tester recently sold his Aries. If you have a Bridge 1 there should be a significant trade-in allowance which should make B2 significantly less than the Aries. On the other hand, the Aries does things B2 will not, including double rate DSD and being able to play off of an attached USB drive with no computer (other than the Aries) running.Hope you're right abt the trade in allowance.....and sq of course.
Paul has mentioned the trade-in a couple times. Sound quality is very good on both the B2 and Aries.
frank7036 said Hi Wijnand,Hi frank,thank you for the reply. Can you elaborate why the AV streamer is better than their audio streamer?
I first owned an audio streamer. The basics of the audiostreamer are pretty much the same as the av-streamer. Only the av-streamer is much much faster. It has a 3,7Ghz processor and 2400Mhz memory it has a very clean linear powersupply with 2 separated transformers for different tasks so that the audiostream is as clean as possible. The only minus is the price it is almost 3 times the price of an audiostreamer. In my opinion the DS realy needs a device like this, because the difference it made is on the same scale as the difference between the PWD and the DS. My storage is on solid state disks installed in the AV-streamer. So no network influences. The audiostreamer on the other hand only sounds good when the storage is outside the streamer.
regards, Wijnand
Hi Wijnand
Interestingly I’ve just had a reply from Jord Groen at Triple M Audio (retailers of PF products) regarding SQ of the audio-streamer which appears to be the opposite of what you said. 
Perhaps the audio streamer has been updated to be more like the a/v streamer that you now have?
The extra cost of the a/v streamer for me puts it in the league of the top Antipodes Reference player so I’m not going there.
Thank you for your input it has helped me narrow down my choices. ATM I only have ~2.5Tb of hi-res music so my needs are limited. In the future this of course may change however by then probably all the products will also have changed.
Regards
Frank
"…
The Pink Faun audio streamer is compatible with the PS audio DS over both the I2S and USB connection. Playing high-res files and DSD files is absolutely no problem for the Pink Faun streamer. Another good thing of the Pink Faun streamer is the linear power supply, this is a huge improvement regarding a “normal” power supply in a computer or laptop. Also is the Pink Faun streamer dedicated for music playback, so all the software that’s not necessary for music playback is not installed, or is removed.
The Pink Faun streamer is capable of playing music from en external hard drive over USB 3.0, though I always advise to play the music from an internal hard disk, the best is to use a Samsung SSD, this also sounds better than any other solution like a NAS. When playing music from the external hard disk all the files are converted to the USB protocol, while playing from an internal drive the files directly go into the SATA.
The standard hard disk in the Pink Faun streamer is an SSD, with a max capacity of 120GB. This can be upgraded to a max of 4 SSD drives of 1 TB each. Because the SSD hard disks are very expensive most customers use 1 or 2 drives and use the external hard disk or NAS as backup. …"
Hi Frank,
The audiostreamer would be a great choice
I assume that the last part in your reply is written by Jord. Jord never mentioned the AV-streamer in his answer, but I’m sure he mixed up the two streamers in his reply. The audiostreamer sounds better when the storage is outside the streamer, it has no room for multiple disks. The AV-streamer does and sounds even better when the storage is inside the streamer. The difference between the two is probably due to the system bus. The system bus of the AV-streamer is much faster.
The audio streamer is a great device and sounds better than normal computers based streamers, labtops, macbooks, mini’s etc. But I don’t think it is possible to update the audiostreamer to meet the same SQ of the AV-streamer. This is due to the bigger and better organized powersupply and the much faster hardware.
Regards, Wijnand
Hi Wijnand,
I’ll pm you Jords entire email about the audio streamer - he definitely says it can have multiple internal SS disk. I will also ask him to confirm that he hasn’t mixed up the streamers in his reply to me.
Best Regards Frank
I have had continued discussion with Pink Faun on the SQ and capability of their AudioStreamer product. It has been substantially updated from when member Wijnand tried it. PF happily acknowledge that their A/V Streamer is their top line/best sounding product however the AudioStreamer has been taken to another level in SQ and on-board storage capacity. Below is the reply from Jord Groen @MMMAudioShop outlining the updates.
Regards
Frank
Hello Frank,
The TeamViewer software work fine over WiFi,
Regarding the discussion on the PS audio forum, the audio streamer I describe to you is the same audio streamer Wijnand used, but with a new motherboard. The new motherboard I use is provided with a significant more powerful processor (quad core Intel Pentium), 4 SATA connections on-board for extra hard disks, and the motherboard has is a 64 bit bus system. The previous motherboard I use was a 32 bit bus system, had only 1 SATA connection and a dual core ATOM processor. So the new motherboard is by far better then the older one, I have compared both motherboards and the newer one absolutely sound better. Because the new motherboard I use now is on the market for about 5 weeks, I think Wijnand doesn’t know I use this motherboard right now. Another huge benefit of the new motherboard is the possibility to use internal SSD hard disks, this is the best way to storage and play music.
Wijnand is right about the AV streamer, this is our top model and of course this one sounds better than the audio streamer, even the with the new motherboard. But, there’s a price difference of €2540, so if the AV streamer doesn’t sound better I have not done my job right.
Because the Pink Faun audio streamer perform better with the new motherboard, it will sound a lot better on the Direct Stream than the older model.
Best regards,
Jord Groen, Triple M audio shop
There seems to be two schools of thought on the SQ impact of processor power. Some like the maker of the Anitpodes opt for low power processors as they believe high power produces more electrical noise.
Would be interesting to hear Jord’s take on this.
Hi Frank,
Thank you for the new information. I think I have to visit triple m in the near future.
@alcarp your question about the difference between processor power and less fast low power processors. Both are partly true. I have tested a lot with different computers my experience is that the faster the processor the better the sound. This in combination with a fast motherboard and memory always sound better than low power processors. Keep in mind that a fast processor has an easy job streaming audio and mostly runs around 1khz so this high speed processor becomes a low power processor.
The direct result is more thight and precise sound with more rest and a better soundstage.
Regards,
Wijnand
Linvincible saidSince the jitter is supposed not to be good from the Pi especially on 44.1 multiples, we have to thank Ted for his ultra efficient jitter reduction tech!
I think the beauty of I2s (usb) is that the dac clock controls the device. So the pi’s poor jitter performance has nothing to do with anything going on via I2s
Nope, sorry. Tho I2S does have a master clock, it depends on the particular configuration whether it’s supplied by the source or the destination. You are correct that in theory the lowest jitter topology is that which has the master clock being supplied by the destination, but not all sources can slave to an external clock…
In the case of the DS the master clock signal just isn’t hooked up. There’s nothing for the DS to do with the master clock even if it did pay attention to it.
so is there a clock pushing the data out to the directstream?
Yep. I2S, AES/EBU, S/PDIF and TOSLink are all push only. The FPGA treats USB as push as well, tho outside of the FPGA it is pull. The FPGA doesn’t try to track clocks, it just puts whatever raw data it gets into a buffer…
So why the need for i2s. I thought one of its inherent strengths is that the dac can control the flow of data but it sounds like USB is the only method that allows for that. I know the DS doesn’t care about any clock but its own but why is it, in theory, that I2s is superior?
There’s a whole thread about it somewhere around here.
The bottom line is that the sound differences you hear with the DS are different than most DACs with respect to jitter. The DS is better at attenuating jitter than most DACs and that lessens the difference between inputs. On the other hand different groundloops, etc. from different sources can cause entirely separate differences (that are often DAC independent.) The DAC usually gets blamed but it’s often a system issue (which includes the DAC but also the other component’s grounding sensitivities, etc.)
Anyway, on the DS between I2S, AES/EBU, S/PDIF and TOSLink there is essentially no difference with regard to jitter - hook them all up to a single transport and to the DS so they all have the same grounding no matter which input is selected. You won’t hear a difference as you change inputs on the DS. The same would be almost true for USB, but there aren’t that many sources out there that do both USB and I2S or AES/EBU… at the same time to run the test.
As far as ground loops are concerned, better grounds are better and often I2S cables have the best grounding so in a particular system that may give them the edge. USB has the 5V power bugaboo which can cause more noise than other inputs in some systems.
A lot of people’s experience with other DACs doesn’t translate to the DS but some does. It’s best to try things out for yourself in your own system.
I mostly use USB just because it has a higher bandwidth (double rate DSD and 352.8k 32 bit PCM), is convenient and sounds good enough for me.
Perhaps you were asking about I2S in general over AES/EBU, S/PDIF and TOSLink?
I listed those inputs in the typical order of better to worse jitter. I2S has a separate clock, differential signals and good grounding. And as you mentioned it can have the DAC provide the master clock so that the DAC doesn’t need a PLL or other method of clock recovery thereby lessening jitter. The rest encode the clock in the data so it’s harder to get a clean low jitter clock back. AES/EBU is balanced which can cut down common mode noise and keep a cleaner signal (but doesn’t always), TOSLink is slow and rounds the edges off which can worsen jitter, but it is galvanically isolated and in some systems can actually sound the best (but not usually.)
I2S is good for short distances (it was originally used only on the same board between digital audio devices.)
AES/EBU can go long distances. S/PDIF medium and depending on the quality of the plastic/glass TOSLink cheap and is good for short distances or possibly medium distances.
Thanks Ted. This helps.
Just throwing a datapoint into the source debate:
I now have three high grade servers in the house - a battery powered CAPS 3.0 USB (about $3,500), a Monster Server with Lynx AES/EBU MCH card (about $4,000), and the Pink Faun A/V Streamer with I2S bridge (about $5,000). Downstream is a PS audio Directstream DAC. All testing was done with 2 channel.
I just did a shootout. All comparisons were done in real time A/B switching mode. I started the same track at the same time on two sources, and switched between inputs on the DAC. Here is what I found.
a/v streamer and Monster are equivalent on 44/16
CAPS 3.0 beats the a/v streamer and Moster by a small margin on 44/16.
a/v streamer beats Monster by a small margin on high rez material
The difference are splitting hair and not worth fretting over. I could happily live with all three. I will consolidate my two servers to the a/v streamer (may be keep the CAPS - not sure yet). I was hoping the streamer would blow the other sources out of the water. Did not happen.
So my provisional conclusion is there are no major differences between high caliber servers. I suspect none of the dedicated 5 figure servers (Beatis, "The Beast etc.) will beat one of my three sources by a material margin (if at all). Can’t prove this without trying of course. I recognize that others seem to find more significant differences between sources, and don’t dismiss their finding. This is audio after all.
Great you received your AV-Streamer!
The first few days it will sound pretty harsh, small soundstage, etc, etc. It will improve a lot. You will hear it improve day by day. Are you using the AV-streamer with internal solidstate disks or harddrives. Are you using a new I2S cable? The I2S cable will improve too.
I think you will be very happy when it is burned in. Believe me!
Regards,
Wijnand